Cheeseburger Gothic

Punishing the witness

Posted February 13, 2014 into Blunty by John Birmingham

Traditionally, I have very little regard for state government policies on school bullying. Now I have even less.

At Blunty.

10 Responses to ‘Punishing the witness’

HAVOCK21 reckons...

Posted February 13, 2014

i see the reatrtds are as fkn fast as ever at BT FKN WE GET TO YA COOOOMENT WHEN WE FKN LIKE!!

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sibeen mumbles...

Posted February 13, 2014

Nice blog, JB.

You lot are really entering some new form of dark ages up there. Joh would be very proud.

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Blarkon mutters...

Posted February 13, 2014

In a decade or so, all kids will be wearing wearable computers - so there will be more recording in the schools.

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Miss Maudy is gonna tell you...

Posted February 13, 2014

Chaos has been sort of bullied off and on since prep by the same thick witted kid and his equally thick witted thugly mate - how does the school choose to deal with it? Put them in the same class because oh yay. That totally makes sense. And to compound it, let's sit them at the same desk so bully boy can break stuff 'accidentally' and oops, shoot him with a rubber band that slipped, miss, I didn't mean to shoot him. Sly kicks in the playground, bit of verbal slap down when nobody can hear. Oh, can't you take a joke when he gathers up the courage to complain.

Oh, boys will be boys and are you sure he's not over-reacting?

I'd like to over-react on the little thug myself, but sure as anything someone would record the bloody thing. And they'd believe that!

John Birmingham asserts...

Posted February 14, 2014

We had this problem for a while. Until I told the school I'd given my daughter permission to use whatever force she thought necessary to bring any physcial harassment to an end. Having infomred them of that, I then infomred they'd be liable if she broke his arm.

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w from brisbane is gonna tell you...

Posted February 13, 2014

Perhaps inappropriately, but I am reminded of when the film of awful prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib was shown. Donald Rumsfeld said he has acted immediately to stop this.

What have you done, Mr Rumsfeld?

I have banned digital cameras, camcorders and cellphones with cameras in military compounds in Iraq.

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Nocturnalist asserts...

Posted February 13, 2014

Yeah, I see from these remarks and a few over there that I wasn't the first to see this as part of a bigger pattern, a bigger attitude.

"No, you do not get to make recordings, of anything at all, ever. Recordings are for People In Authority to make, for our own purposes, and you don't get to question them or see them. Be silent and obey."

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HAVOCK21 asserts...

Posted February 14, 2014

All recordings should be through an optical magnification device with attached range finder.

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Darth Greybeard has opinions thus...

Posted February 14, 2014

Could have had a good rave over there with all the examples I saw back in the teaching days. But I don't have any answers. Some kids are bullies, so are some of my former fellow teachers, so are quite a few principals etc. Like any whistleblower anywhere in any organisation if you point it out, you can forget promotion and look forward to rewarding opportunities at the worst school they can send you to.

Trouble is, whichever party is in power, education is an expense with no immediate look-at-what-we-did returns. So you hand it to a department head who is on a contract for big bucks. Want it renewed? Cut, cut, cut the costs and smother the bad publicity. The bullying starts at the top. Nothing will change until the bosses are paid to solve problems rather than hide them.

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Big Ass iPhone Experiment

Posted February 11, 2014 into Blunty by John Birmingham

I wrote this on Sunday, originally for the Burger, and was going to post it yesterday. But I thought it looked like it could use a wider audience (and derpier comment thread) so off to Blunty it went.

Big Ass iPhone.

4 Responses to ‘Big Ass iPhone Experiment’

NBlob asserts...

Posted February 11, 2014

#askingForAFriend

One handed pR0n?

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pi puts forth...

Posted February 11, 2014

Ha... I got a fitbit a few weeks back. Loving/hating it.

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Dave W ducks in to say...

Posted February 11, 2014

I was worried we were talking about a big arse-phone, and that somehow I'd yet again missed the technological zeitgeist.

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Darth Greybeard has opinions thus...

Posted February 11, 2014

Boring lot over there. Tried to lower the tone but no joy.

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A blog purpose built for Messrs Orin and Barnes

Posted February 6, 2014 into Blunty by John Birmingham

The creationist science teacher.

At Blunty.

60 Responses to ‘A blog purpose built for Messrs Orin and Barnes’

Hooper mutters...

Posted February 6, 2014

Oh, My, God. JB, you've done it again.

Reading some of those comments are going to keep me entertained all day. +1 good Sir.

Ray Comfort (from NZ, but I'm waiting for the day that Australia claims him) is another one of K-Hams ilk.

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Dave W mutters...

Posted February 6, 2014

I've definitely reached the point where I agree that science debating religion is pointless. It puts the two on an equal footing, where clearly they're not. Indeed, they're not even the same topic. Plus it gives the ignorant creationists credence.

Sub question for JB: which gets more communts- climate change, creationism v science or those damn cycling hippies who keep getting hit by cars?

BigWillieStyle ducks in to say...

Posted February 7, 2014

I believe JB once did a blog about cycling scientists who were being funded by a hippy collective to investigate climate creationism. On Indonesian fishing boats.

The communters were out in force, I tell you.

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Murphy puts forth...

Posted February 6, 2014

What I find entertaining about this article is that it reads very much like the essays I get in my history classes at a local community college.

The difference?

One is satire whereas the other is wholeheartedly attempting seriousness.

Still trying to decide which is which though.

Respects,
S. F. Murphy
On the Outer Marches

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sibeen would have you know...

Posted February 6, 2014

The Enlightment

1650 - 2000

R.I.P

Dino not to be confused with ducks in to say...

Posted February 6, 2014

1650- 1861

Dino not to be confused with is gonna tell you...

Posted February 6, 2014

1650- 1861

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Rob asserts...

Posted February 6, 2014

I always wonder where all the nasty creatures went on the ark. No rational superbeing overlord would create this.

Reminds me of being at art school and making born again christians cry. About the only time my art work has had any effect whatsoever. I'm not sure if it was the blasphemy or the cruicfied teddy bears that did it.

TISM as always have the best soundtrack to this.

DiddyWrote mumbles...

Posted February 6, 2014

Hi Rob,

Julian Barnes wrote an amusing short story written from the point of view of an unwanted stowaway on the Ark. All the other animals would have killed the stowaway on sight if they had known it was on board as it was more dangerous than other creature on board.

The conclusion eventually reveals what the mysterious stowaway was.....a woodworm.

Rob would have you know...

Posted February 6, 2014

I liked that book too. especially the final story about the dead guy improving his golf handicap and trying to spot hitler riding a rollercoaster.

pi mumbles...

Posted February 7, 2014

Ha... I remember reading that story long ago. I thought it was true.

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SZF is gonna tell you...

Posted February 6, 2014

For a laugh in my first year of uni Biology the professor treated us to a recording of a "Recent Creationist" - who really double down on that shit.

They believe that the world was literally created this morning, and EVERYTHING we remember/discovered/etc was planted in our minds by Cthulhu, or something.

First year's a little hazy, but I seem to recall that the guy on tape was a teacher or a local pollie? He was definitely a Queenslander though. I wonder...

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Quokka has opinions thus...

Posted February 6, 2014

OK. I'll lob a grenade in the shark tank.

There was a conversation on RN the other day about class size v. teacher intelligence that was relevent to this, unfortunately I cannot find the link.

Nbob, were you listening, or were you busy chastising Joe Sixpack for the contents of his esky?

The content of the conversation was that the research shows that smarter teachers = better informed children & dumber teachers = ignorant masses. And class size made SFA difference. If anything, smaller class sizes were counter-productive because it drove up the costs of education and it drove down the quality of intelligence required from the people working as teachers.

This was news to me as being an ex-educator, I know how much easier it is to cope with a smaller class size - so I've always held the view that smaller class size is better for the students & the teachers.

My only gripe with the research is that they were comparing recent studies to pre-war classes - and what you have to factor in there is that up until the 70s there was a zero tolerance attitude to bad behaviour in class.

The difference being that in the last 20 years there has been an increase in the number of children in the class who have behavioural or learning difficulties, with teachers needing to devote a good chunk of their day to attending to the needs of the most demanding personalities while the kids who don't cause a problem tend to become invisible. My gripe when I left was that kids were learning that good behaviour goes unrewarded & bad behaviour will get you everywhere.

Please view Exhibit A: Kyle Sandilands.

I have friends who are still in the edjamacation system who report that 20 years ago you'd have 1 or 2 kids that had issues. These days it's usually 1/3 of the class.

Why that's happened, or how you address it, I don't know - but that show offered an interesting viewpoint. Worth a listen, if anyone knows where to find it.

Barnesm asserts...

Posted February 6, 2014

I thnk your right, some others have questioned the methodology of that study and have identified the issue you raised.

w from brisbane would have you know...

Posted February 6, 2014

Quokka, I think that RN conversation about schooling might have been this one on Life Matters.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lifematters/free-schools/5216948

Re : Changes in student behaviour. I have friends who are teachers. They say, 20 years ago they were full-time teachers, now a lot of their time is social work. Increased cultural diversity is another complicating factor these days. It may enrich society in so many ways, but it is a minefield in many classrooms.

NBlob mumbles...

Posted February 6, 2014

Was bustin' Joe's ballz Aunty Q.

But looks interesting. I think LM has dropped a bit. Not blaming host the All In The Mind chicky Nattasha?) is bonza, I think there may have been a producer change.

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Barnesm is gonna tell you...

Posted February 6, 2014

Oh thank you JB made my day.

and for a humorous take there is always Dara O'Brien

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Bondiboy66 would have you know...

Posted February 6, 2014

The derp levels of some of the responses are beyond the range of my derp-o-meters....

ewbewdi swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted February 6, 2014

I'm often amazed that some of the prviosly rational commenters get suddenly very, very, very irrational when the subject becomes sensitive to them. Is there a teeth gnashing, spit spraying, keyboard hammering, tanty throwing fundy buried somewhere in all of us?

insomniac has opinions thus...

Posted February 6, 2014

i prefer "passionate" to "irrational"

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Rhino puts forth...

Posted February 6, 2014

Get Havsy to the Atlanta International airport and I'll point him northwest and let him do what he do best - CAPPIN' MUPPETS. It is the least that you can do to send one of yours to get one of yours back.

Dino not to be confused with asserts...

Posted February 6, 2014

He's Busy!

pi mumbles...

Posted February 7, 2014

NUKE THE FKRS FROM SPACE!!!

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Halwes mutters...

Posted February 6, 2014

Oh man that was good. The comment about the animals "might not have been full size" and "maybe you'd like to rethink that" got my vote. That would explain why the whole ark didn't fill up with shit on the first day. Tiny little elephant crap would have been easily managed by one bloke and a shovel. The creationists have definitely got us and our stupid science and logic with that one.

she_jedi mumbles...

Posted February 6, 2014

What entertains me no end is that the Ark story in the bible is derived from an even earlier Babylonian flood myth. Presenting Noah's story as fact means they're plagiarising Babylonian creation myths. Oops

pi asserts...

Posted February 7, 2014

Hello... christmas? Winter solstice?

I reckon it's fantastic that the people who wax on about the bible and christmas put up christmas trees and wreaths on their doors. When you start a couple of questions about what the tree signifies in christianity, you get a multitude of hilarious responses. It's funny right up to the point where you explain where the actual tree thing comes from (pagan 'n all). Then their brains just switch off, and they get really angry. It's almost like a formula.

Great entertainment.

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ShaneAlpha ducks in to say...

Posted February 6, 2014

Does God still do the animal shrinking thing?

Because it would make my animal smuggling go much easier if I could get my good buddy God to shrink them , stuff them into a condom and use the old reliable smuggling routine.

Or does Richard Gere hold the copyright to that?

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Dino not to be confused with is gonna tell you...

Posted February 6, 2014

Remember the Australian Geologist who lost at an Australian court about Noah's Ark?

Remember that.

If any Fuckwit is so stupid to mention the Bible in my earshot look out.

You do have 50 dollars in your pocket don't you?

Cause today at the bottle shop when I mentioned this story there was silence in the queue.

Either they agreed with me or they have no balls.

At least two people had no balls.

Bring on Eugenics...

Dino not to be confused with has opinions thus...

Posted February 6, 2014

When I mena Eugenics I mena the Western Interpretation Obviously!

Keep a stupid labour force, we need a labour force to build the Pyramids.

Who the Fuck would build a Pyramid?

Quick let's run away and change the story.

We're God's Heroes!

Dino not to be confused with is gonna tell you...

Posted February 6, 2014

Some free intel.

Most of the good Backsish to Egypt comes from Syria.

Heard of the Bakaar.

I have mentioned Pyramids and will now mention Heliopolis.

The 'Holy Trinity' if you have a brain and find Baalbeck.

Anyway we should build a Pyramid in Kentucky.

Promise God and Eternal Salvation.

I gave all my money to some Church that promised Eternal Salvation.

I am pretty smart and I figured it was a good deal.

Like is there a better deal than that?

I ask You?

Dino not to be confused with reckons...

Posted February 6, 2014

Burning Bush's Anyone.

Give me a 'tablet'.

Or two.

Oxycodone or uppers or downers.

Anything from Big Pharma and FaceGook.

Give me another one.

I am tired after hauling stone on a slope.

Rope Burns.

Dino not to be confused with puts forth...

Posted February 6, 2014

Anyhoo pray to your dog and I hope you get to visit the Georgia Guide Stones.

In the mena time watcha da Olympics anda vega outa.

All's good.

Sweet.

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Mark R. Whittington asserts...

Posted February 6, 2014

Just in the way of a minor correction, Bill Nye is not a scientist, though he used to play one on TV.

Barnesm puts forth...

Posted February 7, 2014

I think that may depend on what you define as a scientist.

He did complete a degree in Mechanical Engineering at Cornell University and after graduation worked as an engineer at Boeing. He developed a hydraulic pressure resonance suppressor still used in the 747 today.

He continues his interest in science and engineering and assisted in the development of a small sundial that was included in the Mars Exploration Rover missions to provide a basis for color calibration in addition to helping keep track of time.

Asa fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry I think employs the principles of the scientific method and displays an understanding of that method much greater than many people who may be studying PHD (yes I am looking at you Univeristy of Wollongong)

So if you mean a scientist is only someone who holds a recognised PhD from a accreditied university then no he isn't a scientist but remember historicaly those that made many of the break throughs in science never held such degrees but I wouldn't say they weren't scientists.

pi swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted February 7, 2014

I agree. Any good technical engineer is also a scientist in practice.

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Blarkon has opinions thus...

Posted February 6, 2014

The problem with these debates is that they are unlikely to ever change minds. I saw one with Plimer versus someone similar (before Plimer went all Global Warming Denial he wrote a book demolishing creationism). The key question is "what would change your mind on this?" - and that needs to be asked at the start.

Bangar has opinions thus...

Posted February 8, 2014

I wonder how many minds have been changed by internet "arguements". My guess none.

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan asserts...

Posted February 9, 2014

Internet arguments frequently persuade me to change my ways.

NBlob puts forth...

Posted February 10, 2014

Comrade Havoc changed my mind about the need for armed forces. I was a confirmed pacifist, I believed that all the $ spent on war would be better spent on social programs and that making widows & orphans only stored up problems for another generation. He argued convincingly that there are times when the Just War argument holds up and when such a circumstance arises its best to be able to deliver deadly force with accuracy & overwhelming might.

Jarrod ducks in to say...

Posted February 10, 2014

Its like that story told by Richard Dawkins who was invited to debate a creationist in the US. his response was "That will look much better on your resume than it will on mine" and politely declined.

It is amazing to me that in the age of reason there are so many people who believe in relgious crap. Still I suppose that at least 50% of all the people you meet are of below average intelligence.

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan mutters...

Posted February 10, 2014

Speak for yourself. For me it is closer to 95%. It is very depressing.

Jarrod would have you know...

Posted February 10, 2014

Ummm that can't be the case. Of course it may be that you think that 95% of the people you meet are below your level of intelligence, which might be true if you are very bright, or it might not be true if you are very dim and suffer from the dunning kruger effect.

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NBlob mutters...

Posted February 7, 2014

Off topic, but slightly Awsm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-06/taranis-drone-uk-mod-bae-systems-woomera-south-australia/5242636

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Darth Greybeard is gonna tell you...

Posted February 7, 2014

One thing not widely mentioned was the range of creationist beliefs. At the rational end you have those who absolutely accept the history of the universe, evolution etc and simply see God as a prime cause. No urge to argue there - who am I to say? Moral nature of hypothetical deity is for another day.

But at the other end we have the People's Front for the Liberation of Judea vs the People's Liberation Front of Judea. Billy didn't realise that Ken would cast him into the pit for his crazy old universe/new earth beliefs. Also someone should introduce Billy to Ockham's Razor. Oops, gotta see an agent. BBL

Therbs mutters...

Posted February 7, 2014

Typical splitter talk.

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FormerlyKnownAsSimon would have you know...

Posted February 7, 2014

it's like the powerball when the first comment is like that. It also sets the tone for the remainder of the comments. I think that guy is onto something though . . . dinosaurs did exist, it's just that when it came for their time to get shrunk down . . .well the shrink ray had been working overtime, overheated a bit got stuck and couldn't stop. The poor buggers just slipped through the cracks. Plus we've all seen those drawings of super sized wombats and kangaroos. They didn't get resized when they got dropped off.

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w from brisbane asserts...

Posted February 7, 2014

Religious belief is probably just about the most diverse thing produced by the human mind. It is unscientific to try to simplistically characterise. JB's piece was specific to the promoter of the idea that 'earth' was created from go to woe about 6,000 years ago, in six solar days. That would seem to be at the more extreme end of Christian belief.
I was raised a Catholic. My mother goes to church each week and the beliefs expressed by Ham would be given short shrift by her, and really be irrelevant to the nature of her faith.
I puzzle to try to understand what people actually think God is. It is not that important to many practitioners.
I have known quite a few priests, mates and mates of mates. The question I ask priests is, "When you pray, do you think there is some conscious entity listening, in any way that we might understand listening?"
"Not really", would be the most common response.

Dino not to be confused with asserts...

Posted February 7, 2014

Hey W,

In my limited experience faith is not in God but in Humanity.

I deeply Religious.

Despite my rantings I am.

The nexus between Science and Theology is fascinating but for intellects higher than ours.

No disrespect to you my friend.

I cherish your thoughts.

w from brisbane is gonna tell you...

Posted February 7, 2014

That's cool, Dino. I might have been raised a Catholic, but I turned in my kneepads when I first carefully considered religious doctrine and whether it made rational sense to me. I remember it well. I was walking to school. I was nine years old.

Dino not to be confused with asserts...

Posted February 7, 2014

Just fkn grow up W!

Jarrod reckons...

Posted February 10, 2014

That is an interesting point. If God does exist and is indeed omiscient then (S)he has a mind capable of simultanously processing all information avaliable in the universe. That is an intelligence that is so beyond human capabilities that it is completely alien. How could a human being possibily relate to an intelligence that powerful. Indeed for an intelligence that powerful they would get a headache thinking down to our puny level.

If God does exist then it is no creature to which we could possibly relate.

Dino not to be confused with would have you know...

Posted February 10, 2014

You know the thing about the stone.

The big one at Baalbeck is the men said-

NO worries. You move it.

And then there was Silence.

How nice would that be (?).?

Dino not to be confused with mumbles...

Posted February 10, 2014

And it is still fuckin there!

Waiting LAdies?

Dino not to be confused with mumbles...

Posted February 10, 2014

What I suggetssss Is you terat men with soome respect.

Dino not to be confused with puts forth...

Posted February 10, 2014

"Just a little bit"

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Jarrod is gonna tell you...

Posted February 10, 2014

LOL, that cracks me up! it is right up there with: " I'm not racist, I have friends who are black" and "I dunno much about art but I know what I like"

Perhaps gaining some expertise might assist with the whole belief thingy.

The problem with Intelligent Design and the suggestion that we are the product of some "creator" is that leads to the inexorable question "where did the creator come from". I know I know "Its elephants all the way down".

So who designed God!

Jarrod asserts...

Posted February 10, 2014

Game set and Match to Mr Boylan. I am now a creationist!

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Respond to 'A blog purpose built for Messrs Orin and Barnes'

Stealing Game of Thrones 3

Posted February 4, 2014 into Blunty by John Birmingham

The blog topic that just keeps on keeping on.

Especially, on deadline.

At Blunty.

21 Responses to ‘Stealing Game of Thrones 3’

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan mumbles...

Posted February 4, 2014

I am losing interest in GoT. My new apathy has nothing to do with the allarming recent announcement by Emilia Clarke that she refuses to do any more nude scenes.

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Blarkon mumbles...

Posted February 4, 2014

In the 90's when I was a student I used to buy Star Trek on VHS every month. It was around 25 bucks a taps for 2 epsiodes and you got 1 or 2 tapes released a month. I had a standing order with Minotaur books. A season would be around $300. They came out more than a year after they were broadcast in the US.

This is how I consumed TNG, DS9, Voyager and Stargate. I purchased the fucking media when it became available.

Today freetards talk like not being able to watch something that was broadcast overseas is a human rights violation. Even though the box sets are released in a timely manner and are packed with additional features - they complain that they are "too expensive" and that they are only being ethical in performing the civil disobediance of visiting the Pirate Bay.

In the future - when television is full of stuff that makes the programming on Idiocracy look like an SBS documentary on quantum physics, remember that TV did adapt to your viewing habbits and did find that business model that was sympatico with your reliance on bittorrent for entertainment.

High production values only last as long as someone foots the bill. What's the long term future of Netflix and HBO when torrent sites offer the same product without the hassle of having to pay for it.

John Birmingham asserts...

Posted February 4, 2014

I'm pretty sure I didn't advocate stealing it. The opposite, in fact. I'll just be waiting for my download on iTunes. I'm usually weeks or months behind everyone anyway.

Blarkon ducks in to say...

Posted February 4, 2014

I know you don't - the objection is to the buggers that have been saying "my rights are being violated by having to wait and pay to much"

With GoT, I'm waiting until the whole series is released. I suspect, given the author's writing of the source material, a BattleStar Galactica sized train wreck. If not, at some point in 2017 I reckon I'll have a great 2 weeks going through the series from start to finish.

Blarkon is gonna tell you...

Posted February 4, 2014

(and by that I mean - Martin hasn't finished the books - so I reckon the chances of it ending elegantly are minimized. It might happen. But Galactica is a great example of a series that started wonderfully but was tied up on such a slipshod way that it's hard to want to go back and watch the series again from scratch (unlike say TNG which I've watched in its entirety maybe 10 times) (and which I own on VHS, DVD, and the first 5 seasons on Blu-Ray)

damian mumbles...

Posted February 4, 2014

I'm still all Game of What now?

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Brian ducks in to say...

Posted February 4, 2014

I'm with Or.....Blarkon on this. It's always been my habit of either renting or buying the box sets. Free to Air was always stuffing up the programming on StarTrek and Babylon 5, so I would wait and get and generally ignore any hype going on.

As to Foxtel. Looking at my IQ, I've got about 60 hours of doco's to watch . . .thats all I use it for. My son started recording Continuum, I deleted the lot as I know I'll be buying the set.

Looked into streaming. I'm in sufficiently motivated to go that route. Available content just doesn't do it for me.

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Stuart mutters...

Posted February 4, 2014

Personally my issue with the "wait until its out on DVD" strategy is I then miss out on the shared social experience. Your millage may vary. I also have no desire for a shelf full of shiny plastic disks.

I don't think that justifies torrenting it though. I was happy to purchase the last series on iTunes, largely from the impertus of Birmo's article on the subject.

On a related topic I've found this tool to be invaluable with quickly establishing where and when various media is available: http://www.canistream.it/

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JBtoo puts forth...

Posted February 4, 2014

I borrowed the first two series from the local library. Having read the books, I don't mind waiting and I'm to poor to pay and too luddite (and moral, of course) to torrent. I've had a lovely summer of viewing, catching up with Mad Men seasons I missed and the first season of Girls. I love my library.

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damian would have you know...

Posted February 4, 2014

Testing... sigh: I fail, I can't post nothing, apparently. And after typing for a half hour too. So I was trying to post quite a bit of nothing.

My favorite iTunes movie purchase to date has been Bottleshock. Mostly because it's one of those low-profile movies we might not have come across otherwise... we found it browsing the iTunes store not long after movies became available there. We don't buy a lot of stuff there, we've probably bought more from the ABC Shop, but it's a bit compulsory to use it simply because we can.

NBlob ducks in to say...

Posted February 4, 2014

Et tu?

damian has opinions thus...

Posted February 4, 2014

Je me lance vers la gloire - OK?

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan puts forth...

Posted February 5, 2014

Tout le monde est un comédien.

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w from brisbane mutters...

Posted February 5, 2014

This was droll news to me.

I was thinking of GoT and their challenges of generating revenue with product placement. But apparently, that doesn't mean fans can't drink a HBO licenced Game of Thrones beer while watching Game of Thrones. There is a beer series being produced by New York's Brewery Ommegang, in partnership with HBO. They have made 2 so far

Iron Throne Blonde Ale (Belgian pale ale, 6.5%)
"With a Lannister currently on the throne, it made sense to do a delicate, but piercing Golden Blonde Ale with Noble hops. Iron Throne is certainly fair in color and soft in appearance, yet it still possesses a complexity and bite to be on guard for.”

Take the Black Stout (Belgian dark ale, 7%)
"Inspired by the brotherhood of the Night’s Watch, Take the Black Stout was made to be deep, dark and complex like those who have sworn the oath to defend Westeros against threats from the north. The label depicts the Weirwood tree where Jon Snow recited the oath before joining the Night’s Watch."

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Therbs mumbles...

Posted February 5, 2014

W - those beer descriptions are wankdom writ large, thanks for sharing. But shouldn't the labels simply have shown a set of boobs?

w from brisbane has opinions thus...

Posted February 5, 2014

I'm reminded of that story about Peter Ustinov doing a Q&A. The topic got around to Ustinov's performance as Nero in Quo Vadis.
Some bloke got up and said,
"Mr Ustinov, I saw Quo Vadis when I was a teenager. It is one of my most powerful film memories. But I have to say, the scene I remember most is Deborah Kerr, tied to a post, in a tight fitting diaphanous dress, the wind pressing that dress against her body. I was in the back seat of the cinema, frantically fiddling."

"Then I'm pleased there was at least one person who understood the movie." replied Ustinov.

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan reckons...

Posted February 5, 2014

Is "fiddling" a euphemism? And if it is, why would anyone admit fiddling in the back of a cinema while viewing Deborah Kerr tied to a pole?

Blarkon asserts...

Posted February 5, 2014

Playing the trumpet, swinging the bat, walking the snake or just, you know, having a wank.

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan reckons...

Posted February 5, 2014

Oh. I was hoping for something more substantial.

w from brisbane swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted February 5, 2014

It was a brilliantly wrought classical allusion. As in, hey Nero (Peter Ustinov), you were not the only one having a fiddle (fiddling while Rome burns).
The chap was probably an Oxford man.

Risum teneatis, amici?

Respond to this thread

Surtac ducks in to say...

Posted February 5, 2014

I'm still waiting for the dvd set of GoT season 3 to be out - the week after next I believe - so I'll be waiting a long time for S4. I'm definitely in the buy-the-media camp.

I won't be missing out on the social media aspects either. I've already read oll of the available books and I expect there'll be plenty of online analysis (eh Ms Clumsy?)

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Respond to 'Stealing Game of Thrones 3'

A Statement from Australians for a Muntstitutional Conarchy

Posted January 28, 2014 into Blunty by John Birmingham

"It is with wuthering horror that we note the proposal of Her Majesty’s Prime Minister to interfere with Her Majesty’s antipodean Muntstitution such as to effect a recognition of the savages that lately infested this place as if they owned it or something.

At ye olde Instrument.

62 Responses to ‘A Statement from Australians for a Muntstitutional Conarchy’

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan asserts...

Posted January 28, 2014

You people don't know how lucky you have it. You only have one group of people you have brutalized to the point of disbelief.

insomniac reckons...

Posted January 28, 2014

come back after three years of tony in charge ... you'll have to rephrase your second sentence in the negative.

NBlob mutters...

Posted January 28, 2014

Test

NBlob mutters...

Posted January 28, 2014

Extraordinary PNB. I had never considered that. As a nation you've Fkd over an interesting variety of 1st Nations Folks, African Americans suffered the rough end of the slavery pineapple, the Chinese labour who built the railways didn't exactly get YMCA benefits. Hispanic Americans now get it in the neck on regular basis. That'd be almost like a full set.

i read once that the history of American war back to Cuba can be mapped in suburbia, with identifiable communities from each engagement. Same story, I think a NatGeo, said the were more people who identified as Mon in Minnesota than in nth Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam & Laos.

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan puts forth...

Posted January 29, 2014

Immigration does not vitiate ("vitiate" is my new Big Word of the week). The magic of the American Melting Pot is that the children of immigrants assimilate so well they, in turn, give it in the neck to others. Ruthless oppression fuled by hate is an amazing thing.

w from brisbane ducks in to say...

Posted January 29, 2014

It does sometime seem a tad unfair that, the more multicultural the country, the more harshly they seem to be assessed on their multicultural record.

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 29, 2014

I can't agree, W. Oz is a more multi-cultural nation than the US. I know this because I've been to both. Granted, your multicultural record is not the best, but it is nowhere as dark as that of the US. Yes, you had a policy that essentially sanctioned the kidnapping of light skinned native children for adoption in white homes, but that evil is trivial compared to the Tuskegee syphilis experiment - a clinical study conducted between 1932 and 1972 by the U.S. Public Health Service to study the natural progression of untreated syphilis in rural African American men who thought they were receiving free health care from the U.S. government. Yes, you had racist policies that discriminated against non whites. But we habitually and regularly lynched non whites, and even made the events into picnics for the whole family to enjoy.

You are more multicultural than us but are not as harshly assessed. Nor should you be. You have less to be ashamed of, less to atone for, and less work remaining to be done.

S.M. Stirling has opinions thus...

Posted January 30, 2014

Nblob: "Hispanic Americans now get it in the neck on regular basis. That'd be almost like a full set."

-- that reads rather oddly here in New Mexico, home to Governor -- Republican -- Susana Martinez (previous governor Bill Richardson, mother born in Mexico City) Lieutenant Governor John Sanchez, and Congresscritters Ben R. Lujan and Michelle Lujan Grisham.

I might add that there are two state Governors of South Asian descent; in Louisiana and South Carolina. (Both Republicans, of course.)

At one point in Iraq, the theatre commander was of Lebanese descent, and the ground forces general was the illegitimate son of a Mexican immigrant in Brownsville, Texas, who was a cleaning lady.

I'd like to see a Brit expeditionary force commanded by someone whose parents came from Pakistan, with his second-in-command the bastard son of a Jamaican char.

Enough with the multi-culti-horseshit.

S.M. Stirling is gonna tell you...

Posted January 30, 2014

In other words, it's totally futile to play holier-than-thou. Because nobody is significantly holier than anyone else. Human beings screw each other over whenever they can; they always have, and they always will.

Those who get screwed over are not morally superior; they're just slow, stupid, weak or unlucky, or some combination thereof.

Ask a Tibetan about it, or an Uyghur.

The Aboriginies, like the Amerindians, were going to get it in the neck as soon as people from the Old World discovered a way to sail easily to the continent where they'd gotten themselves isolated. Breast-beating and hypocritical black-armbadism are bullshit. It's not even really about them; it's a rhetorical club one group of white people use against another.

Lulu puts forth...

Posted January 30, 2014

"Those who get screwed over are not morally superior; "

But those who do the screwing are very likely to be morally inferior. Whether or not they're morally inferior to the screwees is not relevant: it's the question of inferiority relative to what is reasonable / 'good' behaviour.

damian asserts...

Posted January 30, 2014

Victims are always morally superior to perpetrators, it is just that the perpetrators might also be victims and vice versa. At a low enough level, the continuation of a long-running war through inconclusive skirmishes closely resembles the continuation of a cycle of abuse. Even states are capable of behaving as Montagues and Capulets, and every guerilla resistance movement is a potential abuser, like a raped child.

I think characterising the genuine historical enquiry undertaken to understand the objective truths behind our national myths as "black armbanding" is bullshit. Especially when it is done as a direct counter to progressive moves to stop the abuse, much less than even starting to wind back the past wrongs. It presupposes that it is all over, that the victims should "get the fuck over it" and if you've ended up marginalised and brutalised, that's your own fault. Oh and if you have the theoretical choice to assimilate then you can't possibly be oppressed.

Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

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Quokka reckons...

Posted January 28, 2014

Insomniac wins the internet and I vote that his/her comment be stockpiled for best satyrical communt of the year.

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JBtoo mumbles...

Posted January 28, 2014

You're in top form old bean

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Spanner has opinions thus...

Posted January 28, 2014

I predicted derp and the internets did not disamapoint.

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w from brisbane is gonna tell you...

Posted January 28, 2014

Off topic, but Pete Seeger has died aged 94 years old. A great man.

Nice talk about Seeger by Bruce Springsteen on the occasion of Seeger's 90th birthday concert.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4i8ziSHkNA

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S.M. Stirling would have you know...

Posted January 30, 2014

Pet Hate: people who say "multicultural" when what they mean is "multiracial".

Race, to the extent that it exists at all, is genetic and you're stuck with it.

Culture is not like your skin color. It's like your clothes. A baby is born naked, and has no culture, no language, no religion, no nationality and no heritage. All that is 'acquired characteristics'.

And you can change 'em, just like your clothes.

Eg., 60% of Americans of Hispanic origin speak English as their primary home language; in other words, they're just another wave of immigrants, blending into the great beige mass.

damian is gonna tell you...

Posted January 30, 2014

If you're talking about PNB or NBlob, I'm pretty sure that both meant "multi-cultural". But I don't presume to read their minds.

Basically I think you are saying "God gave us free will" and the conclusion you draw is that identity politics is always bogus. This is a relatively popular view, though not many put it as well as you.

The thing that got Andrew Bolt into trouble with Australia's Racial Discrimination Act (RDA) was a rather less capable expression of the same or a similar idea. He said that because light-skinned Aboriginal people could pass as whites, they should, and were not entitled to identify themselves as Aboriginal; this is his business because the only reason you might want to do that is to claim benefits.

Many here argue that the complainants should have addressed the matter through the law of defamation and that the separate legal sanctions through the RDA is unnecessary. Had they done so, they'd have profited and Bolt's employer would have suffered more, since the court would almost certainly have awarded considerable damages. As it happens the penalty for the beach of the RDA was pretty weak -- not much more than a grudging, coerced apology.

I think "nature" versus "nurture" is a bit bogus and isn't a distinction that is sensible to make. Most of the qualities we use to identify ourselves, most of the qualities we exhibit have substantial genetic and environmental components and some traits or abilities are only expressed when given specific developmental circumstances. Language is a big one: if you don't have language by the time you're 10, you'll never have it. There's no particular reason to believe that permanence is other than physical, too. Many traits do have a strong genetic component and will only appear through the influence of ones genetic inheritance - anecdotally some of these are surprisingly "cultural". But even skin colour or sickle-cell anemia have an environmental context. It it more sensible to talk about "inheritance" more generally. It's not reasonable to sort traits into categories that may be changeable at a whim. So no, culture is not like shoes.

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 31, 2014

I do mean multicultural, not multiracial. I think I know the difference. My son is biracial. I am Caucasian; my son's mother descends from slaves who originated in Africa. My son is also multicultural - at least I tried to make him that way. I am racially Caucasian, but I identify with two very different Caucasian cultures - Greek and Irish. I tried my best to pass my multicultural identification on to my son. He speaks a little Greek; we've spent time together in Ireland. My wife and I have also encouraged our son to embrace his mother's cultural heritage – which is something independent of race.

Add to this my son’s American cultural identification (aka “the Melting Pot”) – all of which creates some internal conflict. But so what? That’s life in America. When I’m in church I am Greek, surrounded by Greeks and ensconced in a culture that has flourished quietly for 2,000 years. But when I am watching the Super Bowl on my big-ass flat screen television, nibbling on Buffalo wings and drinking Sierra Nevada Torpedo Pale Ale, I am a fucking red blooded American (I have money on the Sea Hawks).

Parts of the US are “multicultural” and some are not. The great cities of the US West Coast are absolutely, unequivocally multicultural. Go to “Korea Town” in Los Angeles and you will see what I mean. San Diego is influenced heavily by a distinct Mexican culture. Not just first generation immigrants, but second and third generation, fully assimilated people who move easily within the American cultural matrix, but nevertheless maintain their cultural identification and attendant habits, customs and world views.

You won’t find the same thing in Idaho Falls (believe me, I know. I've been there. But so what? That’s America.

insomniac reckons...

Posted January 31, 2014

i don't think multiracial is a term used much in Australia. Multicultural covers both aspects that you have outlined above, or else we tend to ignore the race side of things, at least until that group have, or are perceived to have, done wrong.

w from brisbane puts forth...

Posted January 31, 2014

I'm really looking forward to the game. I'm attending one of the many American beer and food themed Super Bowl parties that happen in people's houses around Australia on Super Bowl Monday (time zone - the game is always on Monday for us)

On paper, it is a classic, fascinating, great defensive team vs great offensive team match-up. I'm on the Broncos, but lately the talk seems to be all about the Sea Hawks. Now you to with the Sea Hawks, PNB. I'm losing confidence.

w from brisbane ducks in to say...

Posted January 31, 2014

PNB, I discover Sierra Nevada Torpedo Pale Ale is available from my local mega beer barn. Bewdy!! I'd never heard of it. Great name.

I was wondering what to get for the Super Bowl party. In the old days, about the best you could do here was Budweiser. I love multiculturalism!

insomniac has opinions thus...

Posted January 31, 2014

actually, I bought some Sierra Nevada Torpedo Pale Ale the other day, and now i wish i hadn't. i much prefer the Sheepshaggers Gold or Fursty Ferret i bought earlier

Surtac is gonna tell you...

Posted January 31, 2014

Interesting. I've seen all three of those but haven't tried them yet. I do like the Hook Norton labels though - Old Hooky, Haymaker and the Twelve Days.

In fact, Old Hooky is not a million miles away from JB's Old Persuader in style - it's the first beer i thought of when I first tasted the Persuader..

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan asserts...

Posted January 31, 2014

Torpedo is a relatively inexpensive intense pale ale. Very hoppy (think Fat Yak) which, for some reason, we here in the Pacific North West adore.

W - Super Bowl parties are a junky, fatty, salty things of beauty. My favorite traditional victuals are spicy Buffalo style chicken wings and jalapeno poppers. I didn’t see jalapenos when I was in Oz, but you have everything else, so I don’t see why you can’t get these or something comparable. They are easy to make. Slit the pepper, remove the seeds, stuff with cheese (Monterey Jack preferred), dip in batter and deep fry until brown. Good eating.

Go here for more: http://www.foodnetwork.com/big-game/big-game-appetizers/super-bowl-snacks.html

Surtac asserts...

Posted January 31, 2014

PNB, here in darkest Canberra we can get them from Costco. SWMBO and I liked them, but they were a bit too spicy for the kidlings.

ewbewdi mumbles...

Posted January 31, 2014

You can get jalepeno poppers at Harts Pub in Sydney. I've seen them wrapped in bacon and bbq'd lately too. Anyone here like bacon?

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 31, 2014

No. No one here likes bacon.

w from brisbane mumbles...

Posted January 31, 2014

Jalapeno poppers! They sound festively piquant.
I don't think I would cook them myself. I am scared of deep frying. But I see 'Dos Amigos' at Taringa has them. Takeaways welcome!

'Dos Amigos', I remember JB mentioning something about this well known local nosh house. Let me get the quote.
"Another venue where I can no longer tread. This time due to dope fueled hilarity"
Oh dear!

ewbewdi mumbles...

Posted January 31, 2014

Thought not PNB. No one on the internet likes bacon anymore.

Harts was also on the list of stockists for The Old Persuader. Imagine my chagrin when I made the 4 minute (!) walk up the hill from my office only to find that they'd never heard of it! I was confused at first and then silently outraged and immediately had to console myself with a pint or 7 of their, what I can only assume from the reviews,hopelessly inferior Boxer Red Ale and 3 servings of jalepeno poppers. It was a sad day. I'm yet to find The Old Persuader but my search* continues.

*I check the taps of the pubs I go to now and then if I remember

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 31, 2014

The Old Persuader is an internet hoax. Like the Tooth Fairy and the Queen of England, it doesn't exist.

ewbewdi reckons...

Posted January 31, 2014

say it aint so...

Surtac mutters...

Posted January 31, 2014

It ain't so. I still have 3 bottles sitting in my cellar - do you need photographic evidence? If so it'll have to wait until after I get home this arvo.

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 31, 2014

I appear to have been misinformed.

w from brisbane mumbles...

Posted January 31, 2014

Though ewbewdi, I think there was only one batch made, so at some stage, you will need to give up.

Brother PorkChop reckons...

Posted January 31, 2014

I couldn't find any either. Even after the manager at the EH promised to call me when it came in although they knewe nothing about it. I am actually quite partial to a six pack of Sam Adams every once in a while although the Sierra Nevada range is nice. Tonight, its Sundowner Ales.

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Lulu mumbles...

Posted January 31, 2014

"When I’m in church I am Greek, surrounded by Greeks and ensconced in a culture that has flourished quietly for 2,000 years"

Professor, have you been to Melbourne? Because I know a lot of people here who'd identify with that as well. And I can remember Andrew Bolt whinging 10 or so years ago about people who are Australian-born but still identify as Greek/Italian etc and OMG insist on supporting those soccer teams. I have no idea why he was so offended by the grown men who cried in the streets when the Azurri lost (again) or the other grown men whose joy turned to shirtlessness in the street when Greece won the Euro Cup.

NBlob swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 31, 2014

Thank you Mr Stirling for reminding us that there are real differences between an actual asshat, one that dons an ass for a hat for camouflage, and those that may appear to be wearing ass-like hats by virtue of the extreme range from which they are viewed.

Culture & society are real things, despite Reagan & Thatcher attempting to wish them away. Culture is taken up with mothers milk and like calcium 45 gets deep down in your bones and colours the way one perceives the world. Not all cultures are equal. Those that venerate peace & respect are far more attractive to me than the Warlike and aggressive. It is an unfortunate by-product of history that many of the peacefull cultures have been enslaved & conquered by the warlike. This isn't some Hippy dippy golden era revisionism, for examples consider the Balinese and the pre-whitey Fijians.

There are some very interesting studies being published about the Multi-generational effects of trauma. Some are over near the long haired sociologists, others in the domain of the hard-minded epidemiologists. It is real. It is tangible. It ripples & echoes on down through the generations. Perhaps the most obvious is the children of Some Veterans, raised by violent men with substance issues, or worse orphaned by war, are you honestly suggesting that doesn't impact the developing child's mind? Or poverty? Or illiteracy?

So Mr Stirling, with gritted teeth, I'd urge you to hang up your hat, look past your upbringing and consider how your life may have been different without the benefits of regular meals, relative peace, an absence of multigenerational poverty, racially motivated discrimination, access to books... And don't you dare, even for a moment, claim the "we was dirt poor" angle. Compared to the son of an Aboriginal on an out-station, an itinerant undocumented Latino farm hand, or an African American in the badlands of Detroit, even a poor white farmer's boy relatively speaking had rubies falling out his ass.

I doubt you can, as one of the hallmarks of the truly ass-hatted is the inability to think " There but for the grace of Dog go I." The other is the selective reading of Their holy text to disregard all that Commo nonsense about your fellow man & leap straight to the "I'm better off than him, so Dog favours me more."

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 31, 2014

Lulu - I've been to Melbourne twice and felt very much at home each time I visited. The first time I traveled there I immediately met up with some Burgers (Guru Bob, Bangar, Nautilus) for a quick pint before dinner. There at the bar reading a book was what I immediately recognized as a young lady of Greek ancestry - practically stereotypical Greek features. We spoke a little Greek; she showed me the tatoo on her arm - Medusa the Gorgon. Ah.... my People.

Melbourne has an enormous Greek community. And Italian. And Chinese. And Indian. And Muslim. And on and on and on. Even a lovely Bohemian enclave in St. Kilda that reminded me of Venice Beach, California. I've never seen a more ethnically diverse city. I loved it there. Oh yeah, and - bar none - the best dim sum (you refer to it as yum cha) I've ever eaten.

w from brisbane asserts...

Posted January 31, 2014

And, I heard Herman Wouk say, very sincerely, that he thought Melbourne had a more vibrant Jewish community than New York City.

While we must face squarely our community's failings, we must also face squarely all the good stuff that has happened.

I remember hearing an anecdote from one of the Dunera boys. The shipload of German Jewish internees that Australia accepted from Britain. They were interned in camps in rural Australia during WW2. One of the Dunera boys said, he already knew what was happening in Germany, now being marched along a rural road by armed soldiers in Australia was quite terrifying. But then he knew everything was going to be OK.
Because one of the Australian soldiers walked up to him, handed him his rifle, and said "Hold on to this for a minute wouldya mate? I've got to have a piss."

Dino not to be confused with is gonna tell you...

Posted January 31, 2014

My Uncle came to Australia in the 50's (I think) and laments the cuisine at the time. He's claimed there were no fkn potatoes in Australia at the time but maybe he is embellishing.

He grew up on a farm and I have been there and they eat good.

His recollection of the first few months in Melbourne(starry gazed) of severe pain was alleviated by some Jewish Bloke in Melbourne that sold Gerkins.

Yep.

Gerkins saved my Uncles life.

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan puts forth...

Posted January 31, 2014

You people are killing me here. It is the ethnic warmth, the freedom to be, that makes me yearn for Melbourne. But it is more than just "multicultural" - Melbourne is, in my experience, socio-economically unique. The public transit, the trams, were an amazing experience. Everyone rode them at the same time, different classes casually intermingling - bankers in business suits standing or sitting next to more common, much less affluent folk. That doesn't happen here.

Give me a plate of simple pasta and a world class shot of espresso at Pellegrini's. Let me slowly stroll the Queen Vic to argue with Turkish Cypriot shellfish vendors who won't do business with Americans. Take me to the Victoria Library to stand inches from Ned Kelly's actual armour. Allow me to see the entire city from the top of the Eureka Tower.

Τον επ?μενο χρ?νο στη Μελβο?ρνη.

damian mumbles...

Posted January 31, 2014

There's good yum cha in Sydney and Brisbane too :). But I learned to know it, love it and expect it as a damned essential hallmark of civilisation in Melbourne.

Oh and as a teenager in Sydeny after school I'd walk all the way into the city to visit the Russian place in Centrepoint Plaza that had these great piroshki. Then there was the Ceylonese/African fusion place on Oxford St called Afrilanka... even the dessert ice cream had chili in it. And I mentioned being able to find really good lamb souvlaki almost anywhere? I pulled into a side street in Coonabarrabran on the way from Canberra to Brisbane one time, found a cafe that had the salad bar of the ubiquitous kebab shop set up... so I walked in and asked for a kebab. The lady said "we don't have that sheet, we are Greek". So I ordered a souvlaki and it was a pretty good one too. There isn't a decent sized town in Aus where you won't be able to find a decent Singapore noodle or char-kway-tao, or burritos, or paella...

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan is gonna tell you...

Posted January 31, 2014

Et tu, Damian? You're killing me here.

Bangar is gonna tell you...

Posted January 31, 2014

Melbourne would be greater for you and your family's presence mate.

Dino not to be confused with asserts...

Posted January 31, 2014

Fuck Melbourne

Set up shop on King Georges Road at Bexley in Sydney.

There were Greeks there that did a Lamb Souvlaki to die for.

To fkn Die for!

I think it was Sumac or Smokded Parika but the thing I don't like about Greeks is they close shop(like I went there 10 years later and there gone!!!!!) and don't tell ya wehere they're goin!

damian asserts...

Posted January 31, 2014

You know I'd be amazed to learn that the Bay Area, LA and all in between didn't have all this and more. I mean, the nearest good wine region to Bris (the "granite belt") has a few nice reds, but you're right next to the friggin' Napa Valley, aren't you?

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan puts forth...

Posted February 1, 2014

The grass is always greener in a different hemisphere.

damian ducks in to say...

Posted February 1, 2014

That's very true. And it's an interesting point from the perspective of the original topic, too.

The way that European settlement in Australia was positioned from the point of view of the British and its successor legal systems was predicated on the idea of terra nullius, that there was no-one with existing jurisdiction or title over the land. However the lived experience of settlement was of a war: first a frontier war, then a war of occupation and finally an eradication of resistance. The many Peninsula War veterans who ended up down here recognised and respected the guerilla tactics of resisting groups, even referred to them in those terms. This went on for a little over 100 years.

The trouble with this is that the modern conservative view is of Aboriginal resistance as essentially rebellion or criminal conduct. It ignores the well documented views of most people in the 19th century that there was a real frontier war that lasted the entire century.

There's a growing militarisation of Australian history. The fact that we achieved independent nationhood in 1901 without bloodshed is apparently a bit embarrassing, as is the fact we led the world in social reforms through the late 19th and early 20th ceturies (we fell back a bit after 1950, gained a bit in the 70s and 80s, then fell back again). Apparently participation in a stupid campaign masterminded by the fuckwit Churchill in 1915 outweighs all that. So it's compulsory to revere the ones who got themselves blown up -- though when I was in school the only worthwhile story from that episode seemed to be Simpson and his donkey.

The point here is that we have a more or less compulsory reverence to accord a few white boys who went overseas to die on behalf of the UK, while we are not apparently even permitted to acknowledge the black warriors who died defending the country as it was then. As it happens many of the individuals are known, and there's a lot of evidence and documentation about individual acts of courage and sacrifice. There's a nascent movement that will inevitably prevail, insisting the Australian War Memorial should acknowledge these people. All this stuff about how successful we are at multi-culturalism may be a bit stretched till we've resolved that.

Dino not to be confused with asserts...

Posted February 1, 2014

Damien,

I learnt a little about the Native Population of Australia during school years of the 70's.

Little.

It's a cliche but I know more about American Natives. Tribes, customs etc thanks to TV and John Wayne.

There was that one iconic 1960's film 'Jemma'(?).

You know the one that had Aborigines in it.

Technicolour.

I don't know what they are teaching in schools these days but a reduction in propaganda would be welcome.

NBlob puts forth...

Posted February 2, 2014

Dino. I have a couple of dodgy Kiwi mates & we have compared notes on how the history of the Maori wars are treated VS the Aboriginal Resistance wars in Australia. Absolutely fascinating.

By my understanding (very limited, Im not aprofessional historian) 3 key differences: the Maori wars were a Declared Action with an official title, whereas the dispossession of the Murri & Koori was just sort of a simmering police action. The Maori wars had an End - a treaty - a cessation of hostilities, not here. & finally the Kiwi nation in the late 80's saw value in recognising their 1st peoples.

Worth a separate Blog while The Scribe is on deadline& fiddling his shiny.

NBlob reckons...

Posted February 2, 2014

Re: my reply to Mr Stirling on Friday.

Nice Hat, chickenshit.

Dino not to be confused with has opinions thus...

Posted February 2, 2014

NBlob,

Apparently(I read this the other day and loved it!) "The Land of the Wrong White Crowd" , Kiwiville(and dat bird is just a shruken no good emu according to the latest genetic information) as we know it or Bondi East as they like to refer to themselves, is not in fact 'New' at all!

Where the Fuck is the old Zealand?

My interconnected electronic device is stumped!

Dino not to be confused with asserts...

Posted February 2, 2014

And as For 'Straylya'.

CF Amerigo?

HTF does that work?

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan mutters...

Posted February 2, 2014

There is a Zealand in Holland. Abel Tasman was Dutch - and a nortorious lady's man.

Dino not to be confused with reckons...

Posted February 2, 2014

Maybe He's our Father Paul?

damian mumbles...

Posted February 2, 2014

The continent now referred to as Australia was once known as New Holland. Though I believe it has had other names going back quite a bit further, outside Eurotrash history.

damian has opinions thus...

Posted February 2, 2014

NBlob, I have to admit I am guilty of not following my own advice and best instincts about not feeding the troll (do as I say not as I do, etc). But you're poking it with a stick.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, good job that man, carry on and tally ho and all that.

Respond to this thread

w from brisbane reckons...

Posted January 31, 2014

Getting back to Muntstitutional Conarchys.
Elsewhere, JB has reported his pleasure at picking up the new Cliff Hardy novel. While looking up the latest one, I noticed this as part of the general Cliff Hardy blurb.

Cliff Hardy "has a love-hate relationship with his time and place. He embraces the best aspects of Australian life - the tolerance, the classlessness, the vigorous urban and rural culture - while despising the greed and the conservatism that are constantly threatening to undercut what he sees as 'real Australia'."

That sums it up for a lot of us, I think.

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan ducks in to say...

Posted January 31, 2014

We have digressed from the topic a bit, havent't we?

damian asserts...

Posted February 1, 2014

In 1987 I read all of Peter Corris' Cliff Hardy novels as up to that date... including one that got made into a movie afterward. I gather there have been a lot since then, and I would dearly love to catch up. Maybe that's my project after Alastair Reynolds (just finished Blue Remembered Earth, about to start the next).

I would say I am a Cliff Hardy fan. I like crime writing in general and I'm probably (to be honest) more likely to try that than SF. But we'll see. Got to read a bit of that Peter Temple chap too...

damian reckons...

Posted February 1, 2014

BTW I recall talking about reading Chasm City and thinking it was an early work, and I would like to see stuff later in his career... Blue Remembered Earth is a great piece of writing from a quality author at the top of his game. Looking forward to the next.

Lulu is gonna tell you...

Posted February 3, 2014

damian - Peter Temple does a great picture of some of Melbourne's quirks, particularly the football obsession/tribalism.

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On male violence

Posted January 23, 2014 into Blunty by John Birmingham

After three funny blogs (well, my mum thought they were funny) one that isn't.

At Blunty.

26 Responses to ‘On male violence’

pi ducks in to say...

Posted January 23, 2014

The sad reality is that men have more to fear on our streets of other men, than women do of men. How bizarre is that?

NBlob swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 23, 2014

You just posted...
That failed. You can't post nothing.

Fuck You

third attempt

insomniac reckons...

Posted January 23, 2014

stay off the roids NBob

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w from brisbane ducks in to say...

Posted January 23, 2014

I see very little evidence that women are inherently less violent than men, they just don't generally hit as hard.

Barnesm mumbles...

Posted January 23, 2014

Are you saying they hit like a girl?

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damian reckons...

Posted January 23, 2014

This was a rather wonderful article today, I considered commenting but didn't have a clear enough head.

I think it's a mistake to attribute the problem to a tiny minority of disordered individuals. I think there are problems with the version of masculinity that our culture currently prefers. I think this intersects with the emphasis on competition and the aggressive pursuit of self interest. I think it also plays to the sense of entitlement to respect that others have written about. But ultimately it's about identity and the sort of identity politics we expect mostly from the right of centre.

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Dino not to be confused with ducks in to say...

Posted January 23, 2014

Hey JB,

I live in Sydney and I took 'Confirmation' or Communion ro something at Merrylands Catholic Church when I was about 8 years old. Thereabouts.

What's up with this Ibrahim family?

Do they know the Obeids?

Anyway some fuckwit Ibrahim bashed up the 'wrong' kid in Merrylands.

Made a mistake.

A 'Grown Man', a Nomads Bikie(Where they send the wannabees), picked up some kid off the street and smashed his teeth out. Lebanese Style? The realised it was the 'wrong person'. Lebanese Style definitely.

Anyway his brother has some 'business'' in the cross and passed me in my 4 cylinder jap crap on the Harbour Bridge a couple of years ago doing way over the 'speed' limit' in his Lambogerney. I driven a Tractor. (A proper one but don't tell them that.)

Saw the same car on Roseville bridge going way too fast.

That was after him and his girlfiend got 'shot' at point blank range.

I mean if I was at the passenger or driver door and wanted to shoot someone how could you FKN miss?

Lebanese Style?

Don't get me wrong I have Family that are Lebanese but all Countries have Fuckwits.

Don't they?

Honestly I hope the 'guy' who is going to take out a hit on me is Lebamese.

I'll be fine.

Couple a scars and a nice story.

"Thanks Bro."

So many losers.

Hope the SMH Publishes my comments.

Dino not to be confused with mutters...

Posted January 23, 2014

Nah SMH won't publish my comments.

You can get the gist of it above.

Any hoo next time they are parked on my street, doin' their strut, keep 50 dollars in ya pocket for me.

Bail Money.

Dino not to be confused with is gonna tell you...

Posted January 23, 2014

Holy Fuck! they did publish my comment!

Anyway So next time I meet a Lebarnerse I will have a conversation.

They will probably lay a mat down pointing at Tel Aviv.

Cause there is a problem with the Christians and the Moslems and the Syrians and the Shia and the Sunni and the British and the French and Napaolean but just tell Sam to get the fuck out of my line of sight.

Just out of my line of sight.

Say 'hello' to his mum too.

Before I do.

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Barnesm has opinions thus...

Posted January 23, 2014

Over at the Guardian today they had a piece called Drunken street attacks are in focus, and decline, unlike domestic violence

"....The rate of domestic assaults is more than twice that of alcohol-related assaults, and while the rate of alcohol-related assaults has been falling since 2008, the opposite has occurred with domestic violence. On a 10-year basis, the trend for domestic violence is that it is remaining stable, whereas the 10-year trend for alcohol-related assault is decreasing by 1.6% per year."

Quokka would have you know...

Posted January 25, 2014

Barnesm - I was listening to 612 ABC yesterday & the federal president of the AMA said the same thing.

He also said that on Australia Day, DV assaults double.

That's linked to alcohol intake, & DV is often linked to alcohol & substance abuse.

I think they're very, very worried about the young folk under 25 because their habits of drug & alcohol use are so much worse than when we were that age. 11,000 hospital admissions p/y of 15 -24 yros for injuries/OD due to alcohol is not good.

I think what worries them is not just the immediate problem - if the current batch of 15 - 25yros persist with their habits of binge-drinking & poly drug use - and having worked in health, they do keep it up until well into their mid-thirties & later - it's going to become a lifestyle. With terrible repercussions for child and spousal abuse, aside from the obvious health risks.

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Nocturnalist swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 23, 2014

That was a great article, JB, insightful and simply eloquent. Thank you for writing it.

I do agree with Damian, though:

+++I think it's a mistake to attribute the problem to a tiny minority of disordered individuals. I think there are problems with the version of masculinity that our culture currently prefers.+++

These days I sum that version up in the words of a sixteen-year-old acquaintance during a conversation about this sort of thing: you've just gotta get in people's faces and let 'em know who they're dealing with.

You see it all the time. Co-operation is for pussies and bitches; even "live and let live" is for losers who don't have the guts to go up to someone, get in their face and let 'em know who they're dealing with. If you get yourself into a confrontation you're automatically a bigger and better man than if you hadn't.

It pervades everywhere, it's like bushfire smoke. I see it all the time at work, and way too many times outside of it. Punches outside nightclubs are the places where this particular memic poison collects easily and becomes most visible but I think it's a mistake to think that we can look at those incidents in isolation without fooling ourselves.

It won't go away, either. It's hardwired into us: we're troop primates, and we have the troop primate set of instincts to thump our chests and bare our teeth and make the man opposite us back down.

But we're more than the sum of our grunting, snarling primate brains. To quote our host on a similar topic, even if we as a breed can never be better than this, we as individuals can aspire to be.

So how can we get more individuals to aspire?

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Brother PorkChop mutters...

Posted January 23, 2014

Very much liked the article. I don't agree with Damian and Nocturnalist though. Whilst males might be the tooth baring chest thumping lot, the vast majority of us have evolved far enough to rein it in and NOT be the instigator. It is a small subset that are either unable or choose not to rein in their primal fear of others taking our place in the hierarchy. I and every single other Father I know personally do our very best to ensure that our male (and now female) offspring use the same ability and reasoning to control their baser instincts.

This is a real problem though and the wife and I talk quite a bit about how we can mitigate the risk to our boys and girl from these cowards. I cannot imagine much worse than having to turn off life support for one of my children.

Nocturnalist reckons...

Posted January 23, 2014

+++Whilst males might be the tooth baring chest thumping lot, the vast majority of us have evolved far enough to rein it in and NOT be the instigator. It is a small subset that are either unable or choose not to rein in their primal fear of others taking our place in the hierarchy.+++

We're not in that much disagreement, I think, since I broadly agree with this.

I am, however, wary of considering it a finished process. The reason I talked about those instincts being so pervasive is that they do still have to be reined in. The most evolved of us still have to learn that skill and exercise it, because otherwise all the alpha-chimp wiring bursts into life again, clogs our thoughts and fucks up our lives. By extension, then, I'm wary of doing to much othering of the people who do let the alpha-chimp circuit rule them - "nothing human is foreign to me", and all that.

+++I and every single other Father I know personally do our very best to ensure that our male (and now female) offspring use the same ability and reasoning to control their baser instincts.+++

That's an awesome thing to read. As someone who's not a parent but who is a fellow citizen, thank you for your work.

I still have a part in the broader and greater work, of course, as we all do: that work is continuing to develop and strengthen a culture that reinforces the thinking, controlling brain and keeps the alpha-chimp firmly in check. That work will never be completed, but it can't be backed away from or dismissed.

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Nocturnalist puts forth...

Posted January 23, 2014

I think somewhere in the middle of all this I was going to trot out David Brin's cultural meme stuff again - Paranoia, Machismo, Stability and Inquiry - but I'm about to go travelling and may not be online for a day or two. I'll dig it up again later on if people are still interested.

John Birmingham would have you know...

Posted January 23, 2014

Sure.

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Quokka is gonna tell you...

Posted January 24, 2014

ABC radio news last night said the figures are: 11,000 admissions per year for the consequences of alcohol related violence among the 15-24 yro age bracket, the bulk of it on weekends.

If you talk to people who work in A&E they hate doing the weekend shifts because that is all they see - kids who've fucked themselves on drugs & booze.

I had a friend who was badly injured last year (not from alcohol) & has spent the last 6 months in the brain injury unit at the local hospital. Apparently that's where a lot of the alcohol & drug ODs, and the results of the violence, end up. The bulk of them are very young.

My partner works in a hospital & he sees the same thing, too. Kids who've turned themselves into vegetables because they've gotten fucked out of their minds on drink & party drugs for one fun night at a festival.

I don't think the worst of your fears should be switching off the life-support. That's swift and merciful. The hard part is watching someone young and full of promise who's fucked themselves up crying and begging you to kill them because they've destroyed their lives and they have to live a half-life with the terrible injuries that they've gotten.

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Liz Connor mumbles...

Posted January 24, 2014

Just heard JB on RN and I want to ask him/you to lay off gorillas and other great apes.

The silverback gorilla does thump his chest to warn off other males, but that usually does it. And young unmated chimpanzees tend to go off on gang rape expeditions to neighbouring troupes - especially now that their territories are collapsing.

But hand-to-hand combat among the great apes is usually confined to challenges of the alpha male by a younger male of the troupe - you could call it a kind of initiation ritual. And there are no coward punches among great apes - and no deliberately getting drunk in packs with the express aim of losing control.

No, all that is confined to male humans in so-called civilised societies. So put the blame where it should be.

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Jarrod reckons...

Posted January 24, 2014

They are wrong to blame violence on alcholol and in that respect you are absolutely correct. Everyone knows that the media, especailly TV and Movies are to blame. I mean how many times do you see people on TV and Movies punch each other, ALL THE TIME. Every evening its just a complete punch fest.

I mean the other night I watched a TV show where the protaganist was punched and kicked in the face and head and HE WAS JUST FINE. He fought back and won the day and killed the other guy and NEVER EVEN GOT ARRESTED, let alone charged for murder and sent to the big house for life. In fact in the very next episode he went and did it all again without any consequences whatsoever. I have seen every tarantino film and no one ever gets arrested and the heros always win and are just fine (apart from George Clooney in that vampire one which was stupid anyway)

So kids today they watch this TV stuff and learn that most people can take half a dozen punches in the face and the odd stomping and they will be just fine. So of course when they go down the valley and get a skinful and see someone they don't like the look of, they just givem the odd knuckle sandwich and stomp on thier head a few times and it dont matter. They will be just fine, and the cops dont care so what the hell.

Of course despite having watched loads of movies I have never punched anyeone in the face but I suspect that I am an abberation. I mean most politicians have probably had a few benders on occasions and they never punched anyone (well apart from Ken Clarke in the UK) but the fact that they personally never got drunk and punched someone doesn't mean that booze isn't the cause of it all.

So I think that every violent show should be followed by an episode of Law and Order and CSI where everyone is always caught by some guy with red hair who wears sunglasses everrwhere and then given the electric chair. That way kids will learn that violence always gets punished.

It is plain to see that the only solution to street violence is for the government to regulate all Television and have much stricter classifications for movies so that people learn aren't exposed to the constant flow of violence and then everyone will be nice to each other. Perhaps there can be a violence tax on TV shows which will raise money for the government as well.

Of course I could be wrong, I suspect that it probably Julia Gillards or Anna Bligh's fault, I mean they are pretty much being blamed for everythting by Abbot/CANDO at the moment so I suspect that sometime later this week the truth will out and we will learn that it is all Labour's fault for giving the sweaty proles access to alcholol in the first place, becasue conservatives use thier aggression for good, like playing rugby and stuff.

I might have missed my medication this morning

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Jarrod is gonna tell you...

Posted January 24, 2014

They are wrong to blame violence on alcholol and in that respect you are absolutely correct. Everyone knows that the media, especailly TV and Movies are to blame. I mean how many times do you see people on TV and Movies punch each other, ALL THE TIME. Every evening its just a complete punch fest.

I mean the other night I watched a TV show where the protaganist was punched and kicked in the face and head and HE WAS JUST FINE. He fought back and won the day and killed the other guy and NEVER EVEN GOT ARRESTED, let alone charged for murder and sent to the big house for life. In fact in the very next episode he went and did it all again without any consequences whatsoever. I have seen every tarantino film and no one ever gets arrested and the heros always win and are just fine (apart from George Clooney in that vampire one which was stupid anyway)

So kids today they watch this TV stuff and learn that most people can take half a dozen punches in the face and the odd stomping and they will be just fine. So of course when they go down the valley and get a skinful and see someone they don't like the look of, they just givem the odd knuckle sandwich and stomp on thier head a few times and it dont matter. They will be just fine, and the cops dont care so what the hell.

Of course despite having watched loads of movies I have never punched anyeone in the face but I suspect that I am an abberation. I mean most politicians have probably had a few benders on occasions and they never punched anyone (well apart from Ken Clarke in the UK) but the fact that they personally never got drunk and punched someone doesn't mean that booze isn't the cause of it all.

So I think that every violent show should be followed by an episode of Law and Order and CSI where everyone is always caught by some guy with red hair who wears sunglasses everrwhere and then given the electric chair. That way kids will learn that violence always gets punished.

It is plain to see that the only solution to street violence is for the government to regulate all Television and have much stricter classifications for movies so that people learn aren't exposed to the constant flow of violence and then everyone will be nice to each other. Perhaps there can be a violence tax on TV shows which will raise money for the government as well.

Of course I could be wrong, I suspect that it probably Julia Gillards or Anna Bligh's fault, I mean they are pretty much being blamed for everythting by Abbot/CANDO at the moment so I suspect that sometime later this week the truth will out and we will learn that it is all Labour's fault for giving the sweaty proles access to alcholol in the first place, becasue conservatives use thier aggression for good, like playing rugby and stuff.

I might have missed my medication this morning

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Rob asserts...

Posted January 24, 2014

Its not movies and Tv, kids dont watch movies and TV. Its angry birds. Those little buggers positively enjoy being chucked full force at pigs (um there might be a metaphor somewhere there)

This has been going on in Tasmania for years. Bogan bullies hitting little kids with round house punches to the back of the head. I was at a bar a few months back and this assclown tried it on with me (and everyone else) So I just yelled at him to 'f**k right off you sad little c**t ' muscle clown clod backed down and ended up being chucked (well dragged) out by the manager a few minutes later. She was actually tough.

Anyway it could be all down to lead poisoning in pooer areas creating poor impulse control. Tasmania is basically a toxic wasteland regardless of how many trees you plant and subarus you drive, combined with low educational expectations, high poverty, unemployment and low literacy rates. Its no wonder these now grown men act like 11 year old twats.

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Rob reckons...

Posted January 24, 2014

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline the amazing lead poisoning casuing crime article is here.

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S.M. Stirling asserts...

Posted January 25, 2014

Forensic archaeology is useful here. Over the last little while a lot of work has been done on cataloguing human remains by probable cause of death, and there are a -lot- of remains covering very wide areas and spans of time preseved in museums.

A consistent pattern is found in pre-State societies, hunter-gatherer or neolithic. About 33% of adult male remains show signs of death by intraspecific violence (killed by other humans); usually slightly less than half that percentage of females show similar marks.

That's an underestimate, of course, because soft-tissue damage doesn't show up on the bones.

Cf. Otzi the Iceman, who was preserved by a freak of circumstance and who turned out to have defense cuts on his forearms and to have been shot in the back with an arrow. If we'd had his bones but no tissue, he'd be classified as "cause unknown" or "no evidence of violence'.

So the natural, default state for human beings for a long, long, long time -- since before the emergence of modern H. Sapiens -- was for the commonest cause of death for adults to be violence by other humans. The average way for a grown man to die was being stabbed or clubbed, and while less common for women (who were a big part of what the men were stabbing and clubbing each other for) it was still probably the largest -single- cause of death.

Incidentally this is the typical pattern for a social predator. Wolves show a very similar distribution of deaths, according to the latest studies. And again, according to the latest investigations, humans (and Neanderthals and pre-human hominids back to roughly h. erectus) have been cooperative apex predators since forever. Since the emergence of the modern body plan, which makes no sense except as a cursiorial hunter.

Pre-State societies don't have big wars; no Verduns, no Stalingrads, no Taiping Revolts.

But they don't have any -peace-, either.

What they do have is a continuous round of low-level violence that cumulatively makes them far more unsafe; spearings, beatings, ambushes, raids. You'd stand a better chance of dying by violence if you were born in an uncontacted New Guinea highland village in 1898 than if you were born in Germany or Russia in the same year.

The State's monopolization of violence cuts down on this general murderousness very substantially, and the modern (post-18th-century Western style) state does an even better job.

Like anything else, if you make it a government monopoly the price goes up and the supply goes down.

That's a cultural change.

But the "old Adam" is still there; our -genes- haven't changed and we're the descendants of 200,000 years (or more) of successful killers.

The biology is always waiting to reassert itself if circumstances change or learned inhibitions are released. Short of genetic engineering, there's really nothing to be done about that.

"Natural" =/= "good". It's natural to be always ready to fight, and for that matter it's natural to be very suspicious of outsiders.

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S.M. Stirling mutters...

Posted January 25, 2014

Jarrod: I mean the other night I watched a TV show where the protaganist was punched and kicked in the face and head and HE WAS JUST FINE.

-- well, I've been punched until I fell down, and then kicked in the face and head; as the saying goes, you should always kick a man when he's down, it's much easier then.

It hurt like hell for days at a minimum, but I survived. For that matter I've had people try to rearrange me anatomically with pieces of pipe, rocks, and big sodding knives.

Though thankfully not anytime lately.

I carry a knife myself (what I believe you guys call a flick-knife, Tanto folder from Cold Steel Knives) and have nearly every day since I was a teenager. Mostly I use it for opening envelopes and cutting string, but it's there.

>He fought back and won the day and killed the other guy and NEVER EVEN GOT ARRESTED, let alone charged for murder and sent to the big house for life.

-- first, most murders aren't even -reported-, much less result in a trial or imprisonment or execution.

They generally get filed under the category of "missing persons" or "unidentified assailant".

The really ludicrous "myth" propagated by TV and movies is the competence and omnipresense of the police. They're really nothing like that, you know. Most of the people in prison are deeply stupid because those are the ones they catch.

Second, if you kill someone in self-defense you're not guilty of murder. If it's sufficiently obvious, you usually won't be charged even if the police get involved; it depends what the prosecutors think.

Definitions of self-defense depend on the jurisdiction, of course, but if someone comes up to you and starts pounding away or threatens you with a weapon, you're generally golden.

Here in New Mexico, it's interpreted rather broadly. For example, someone in a passing car shot at a house here. The householder came out shooting (Colt 1911) and emptied the magazine into the car as it sped away. It hit the lamppost at the bottom of the street, probably because the driver had two .45 slugs in the torso. Householder then walked calmly down the street swapping out his magazine and leaned into the car, firing one round into the head of each of the four occupants, then went and phoned the police.

In court he claimed to have been apprehensive that they would revive and shoot at him again.

Found not guilty; justifiable homicide on grounds of self-defense. If he hadn't leaned in and capped all the occupants, it would probably never have been brought to trial, but the DA thought that was going a bit far, even for this area.

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S.M. Stirling has opinions thus...

Posted January 25, 2014

Oh, and on kicking people in the head: I helped teach a women's self-defense course once.

One thing you'll often hear in such courses is "knock him down and run away". This is VERY BAD ADVICE (usually, sometimes it works), and is quite likely to get the woman raped and/or beaten to a pulp and/or killed.

He's probably bigger and probably has longer legs, so he's going to catch her and will then be -really pissed off- even if he wasn't before. And this type is likely to have very poor impulse control and severe anger-management issues to begin with. That's why he's going around and attacking women.

So the advice -we- gave them (I was sort of 3rd assistant) was that if you succeeded in knocking him down, kick him in the head -really hard-. Use the heel, and stomp-kick him two or more times, hard as you can, bam-bam-bam. Give him a concussion, break his face. At that point he's not going to be focusing on his anger any more.

-Then- run away; or call the cops (this was before cell phones became so common) as circumstances indicate.

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