Cheeseburger Gothic

Melbourne jaunt.

Posted February 13, 2011 by John Birmingham
Thanks to all who popped out on Friday night for the catch up in Melbourne. I was held prisoner in the alcohol free green room from 4.45 til after the show, which ran an hour late, so I missed the earlier drinks. But I hear the weather was pretty foul at the end of the day, so props to all who braved it.

Good to see everyone as always. Very much enjoyed that watermelon margarita at the mexican bar n taco place Bob took us to, and didn't pay too much for it and the rushed drinks the next morning.

Breakfast was a pleasant treat, a change from porridge, with grilled Lyonnaise sausage, smoked bacon hock, beans and a poached egg at Cumulus. It was teh awsm. Had me a long walk thru the laneways afterwards to work off, oh, i dunno a mouthful of bacon probably. The individually made lemon curd madeleine was pretty fkn good too. Worth the fifteen minute wait. Proust would totes agree.

Back home now. At the desk. A tsunami of deadlines piled up in front of me, so I'll get back to it.

13 Responses to ‘Melbourne jaunt.’

Blarkon has opinions thus...

Posted February 13, 2011
Great to see the crew, though Barnes, Albion, Naut, and Havock in particular were missed.

Photo of JB at Town Hall http://flic.kr/p/9hp1bd

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Murphy asserts...

Posted February 13, 2011
Ah, breakfast with lemon curd is a good thing.

And you can never have too much bacon. I hear the Yanks eat full plates of it in the States.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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ConspiracyCat has opinions thus...

Posted February 13, 2011
Speaking of Seppos and bacon.... I just found out that Elvis loved Redeye Gravy, which is made by blending the dripping from a pound of bacon with a 1/4 cup of espresso coffee. Now that is serious gravy.

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Havock asserts...

Posted February 13, 2011
YEAH, only two quick pints, but way better than NOT catching up. Only winning the close game sat, made up for NOT being out on the tear getting pissed with you lot late friday night!.

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Bangar ducks in to say...

Posted February 13, 2011
A good night out, did we have to find so many stairs?

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Brian asserts...

Posted February 13, 2011
How was the weather?

All I know is I had rain from the moment I left Melbourne at 4:00 until Saturday.

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Aaron reckons...

Posted February 14, 2011
Sorry I couldn't make it, had rain troubles to sort but had a beer or in spiritual support. There's always next time at least.

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Guru Bob is gonna tell you...

Posted February 14, 2011
In the book I am reading (This is not a game by Walter John Williams) the characters are always eating 'candied pepper bacon' at some diner in LA. My mind boggled..

It was great to catch up with everyone again - Orin took some good photos on the night which I think are on flickr.

Next time you are on the lookout for a watermelon margarita look up this place - http://www.mamasita.com.au/

By the way - how did Lobes night turn out? I last saw him prowling down Collins Street in search of a new party...

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abigail asserts...

Posted February 14, 2011
JB, you mentioned Proust and he didn't even detonate things.
What's happened to you?!
All the best with your with yr writing:)

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Lobes is gonna tell you...

Posted February 15, 2011
Bob, got home at 3:30am, up again at 6am for my flight to Perth.

Probably shouldnt have had that third tequila...

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Albion Love Den swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted February 15, 2011
Holy sheet, JB. That's just one step away from a black skivvy. Dangerously close to emulating one Master Jobs who, you must be aware, MUST NEVER BE COPIED!

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John Birmingham asserts...

Posted February 15, 2011
It's just a tee shirt. Honest!

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Mandi J would have you know...

Posted February 17, 2011
Thanks for sharing at the Gala, thoroughly enjoyed your story. So sorry to hear that pre-presentation beverages were not forthcoming, not at all good form, and very un-Melbourne like! A little write-up of my take on the evening: http://wp.me/p1iQpY-4v

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Book update

Posted February 10, 2011 by John Birmingham
I'm working on a couple of deadlines at the same time right now. The book, of course. A long feature. And a shorter feature. It'd be nice to have a couple of extra hours in the day, but not entirely necessary. I've found a few tweaks I made to my working routine over the past couple of weeks have increased my productivity by about 150%.

I think I'm going to owe Ms. Jennicki a bottle of something when this is all wrapped up. The simple act of kicking away my chair and doing most of my composition while standing up, pacing around in front of the computer has lifted my daily average word rate from about 2000 to somewhere up near 5000.

There's a couple of other tweaks worth mentioning. Rather than work on the book in a solid block before swapping over to the features or a column, I've been doing a coupla thousand words, then swapping, before swapping back at the end of the day. It seems to refresh the imagination or something.

None of it would possible were it not for dictation software, I reckon. I just don't see typing while standing as being that fast. Not my typing anyway.

Structurally, I've also been composing the book in arcs. Writing one story arc for, say, four or five chapters, before going back and writing another. While the arcs aren't linked up it seems to speed the process to stay within them.

That'll have to change as the stories come together.

Anyway, back to it.

Blunty to come. Another thinky one.

4 Responses to ‘Book update’

Murphy has opinions thus...

Posted February 10, 2011
I've been typing on the laptop in our kitchen over the last month since I don't have dictation software. I have to admit that I find it concentrates the mind in a way that sitting does not. The urge to surf the net is markedly reduced and my productivity goes up.

At speed I can type upwards of 80 to 100 words per minute. More if I am angry (which I rarely am when writing fiction).

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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NBlob mutters...

Posted February 10, 2011
What about our Big Thinky Book on Fear?
Damn your mortage, damn the kids school fees. Ditto the bunnies upgrade & the gilting of HV Cad.
I want my Big Thinky Book on Fear.

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Nocturnalist puts forth...

Posted February 10, 2011
How about a Big Fearful Book On Thinking?

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Murphy puts forth...

Posted February 10, 2011
If John writes the book on the fear of thinking then I swear by Grabthar's Hammer I'm going to see to it that I get to adopt it as a textbook in my classes.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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A little world building challenge.

Posted January 30, 2011 by John Birmingham
Murph and I have been playing around the idea of a Combined Fleet in book 3 of the Wave Series.

(Title: Angels of Vengeance.) S'cuse the abandoned alliteration. Nothing was working.

The Fleet's not a major player in the book, more like background color, especially in Darwin. Long story short, it grew out of discussions we had here about the contraction of American power after the Disappearance. We have some ideas about how it's structured, which nations are contributing, and what it actually does.

But given it's not a narrative fulcrum I thought it'd be interesting to throw it open to discussion here.

So. The Combined Fleet is an allied naval taskforce built around the core of the old US Pacific Fleet. (The 7th, I think, without checking wikiknowitall). America can no longer sustain that kind of sea power so it merely contributes to the Combined Fleet.

Which nations do you see playing a part, in what ways?

Parameters: The Chinese Communist Party no longer controls a unitary state. China has fractured into a loose federation based on the coastal cities, although of course, power is still held by many of the same figures and institutions. But rather than, say, the PLA as a whole holding power with the Party, elements of the former PLA have combined with elements of the former state (The Ministry of Industry for instance) and state/commercial combines to establish dominion over certain provinces and metro centres. Sometimes they cooperate. Sometimes not so much.

India and pakistan, recall, exchanged a few nukes. India came off better and survives as a fucntioning state. Pakistan... meh, again, not so much.

North Korea did not collapse. A military coup displaced the Kim family and the junta sought a negotiated peace with the south.

Indonesia riven by sectarian conflict.

Thai civil war.

Chaos still fanning out from north Africa and the Mid east.

Pirates. Pirates everywhere!

Go wild.

65 Responses to ‘A little world building challenge.’

Murphy asserts...

Posted January 30, 2011
Well, my net is back up so I'll post my thoughts here.

I think America's contribution should probably be some sort of naval air power. After doing a bit of research on the Nimitz class carriers, I think that is probably going to stretch the bounds of believability for certain readers (personally, I think it is doable myself but that is another topic).

We have real world models for Combined Formations, perhaps the best of which is Combined Task Force 151 off the coast of Somalia. Given that piracy is a serious problem, one probably does not need a super carrier anyway.

U.S. Navy-USMC Element.

U.S.S. Bataan LHD-5 Wasp Class Amphibious Assault Carrier.
http://www.navy.mil/local/lhd5/
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/navy/lhd-5-med03.htm

The second link indicates that the Bataan was on deployment outside of the Wave affected area. Specifications in the next link.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/navy/lhd-5-med03.htm

If one compares cost of operations with the Nimitz Class write up at Global Security, the Wasp is cheaper. Further, it is a multi-mission capable platform with a record of interoperability with the forces of other nations. Finally, it easily outclasses any other platform of similar type in the region.

If one wants to posit a heavy U.S. presence, then it is possible that two Wasp class ships might be available. One could be configured as a sea control ship (basically a light aircraft carrier) with a full load of 20 AV-8B Harrier IIs. The other could be configured for a more traditional Marine assault capability.

That said, given the current situation, I suspect there will be only one Wasp class ship under direct U.S. Navy control. I do see a potential to sell a Wasp class to Australia as a means of replacing the Canberras which are likely not forthcoming from Spain due to the chaos in Europe.

Thus I'd go with a smaller U.S. Force.

-USS Bataan with a mix of aircraft leaning toward a heavy Harrier contingent.

-One Arleigh Burke Class Destroyer as an escort, ID to be determined later. There should be sufficient ships clear of the wave and attrition from the first two novels to chose from.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/navy/lhd-5-med03.htm

-

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sibeen would have you know...

Posted January 30, 2011
The Aussies, Kiwis and Japan are a given.

Singapore would definitely want in on the action as would Taiwan.

Malaysia may want in but with Indonesia being fractious this may consume a lot of their resources and they may find it difficult. They may be having their own internal racial cleansing.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Vietnam throw their hat into the ring. They've got a busted arse China to the north and in the south Cambodia has probably gone back to the killing fields.

If India still has a functioning government then I suspect they'd also want in, although I suspect there'd be close to a civil war in the country anyway which may keep them occupied.

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NBlob would have you know...

Posted January 30, 2011
Pirates? *Steeples Fingers* Excellant.

AoV, not so much.

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Murphy mumbles...

Posted January 30, 2011
Well, I wasn't done typing but it posted in mid stream.

U.S. Task Force

-1 Wasp Class
-1 Arleigh Burke class (normally there'd be two).
-1 Los Angeles Attack Sub
-1 Support Ship

Land Based Assets might include a Marine or Navy squadron of F/A-18s or possibly a squadron of F-14s (which might still be handy in this timeline due to their long range reach).

I'd also include a Marine Expeditionary Brigade.

As for the other members of the Pacific Alliance, here are my suggestions.

Australia
New Zealand
Philippines (basing, support, intel, own interests in securing the sea lanes)
Japan
Thailand
Singapore
Possibly India

I would normally recommend South Korea as a matter of course since they are moving toward the development of a Blue Water Navy. Perhaps they still are but they'd have their hands full integrating North Korea back into their economy.

I think command of the Combined Fleet would probably rotate among the major players of the force, much as it does among the CTF-151 presently. I also think this force is probably going to be heavily augmented with smaller littoral craft.

Finally, per the U.S. side, if needs must, they can probably be reinforced from Pearl Harbor. I can see a situation where the U.S. maintains a Wasp class closer to Pearl as a rotational backup to the Bataan.

As for the U.S. Navy outside of the combined fleet, I think it would rely heavily on subs and small patrol craft.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Murphy has opinions thus...

Posted January 30, 2011
Ah, Vietnam. Definitely. Same with Taiwan.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Big Pete puts forth...

Posted January 30, 2011
Sibeen beat me to the punch on what I was going to say. How are the Philippines fairing?, If they still have a functioning government, (perhaps not as they tended to be propped up by the Americans anyway), might join in.

The more stable groups in China might be involved, especially if trade is still happening, and if there is a high incidence of piracy, even more so.

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Jyggdrasil ducks in to say...

Posted January 30, 2011
Pardon my ignorance as I have not read the books, but what about France? It, currently at least, considers itself to be a major power in the South Pacific.

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Murphy mumbles...

Posted January 30, 2011
France is not in the best of shape.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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sibeen is gonna tell you...

Posted January 30, 2011
Murph, I considered Thailand but I'm not sure they'd be capable. Malaysia in the South tearing itself apart, ditto Cambodia. Throw in Burma to the west, where the Generals have been emboldened and a Vietnam dominated Laos on the other side. This coupled with shitloads of incursions from Sumatra and I suspect what boats the Thais have will be kept busy just trying to stave of the problems in their part of the world.

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Murphy has opinions thus...

Posted January 30, 2011
Fair enough on the Thais. However, I see this Pacific Alliance as an organization which probably has primary and secondary members. The Thais may not contribute ships directly, but they'd probably have a consulting/advisory role of some type.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Blarkon mutters...

Posted January 30, 2011
So how are they maintaining these ships given that supply lines were borked? The amount of components that need to be swapped in and out of complicated machines on a regular basis is pretty high and they would likely have started running out of spares a few months after the wave hit. 's not like you can scratch build those advanced missiles and computer systems, especially when 99% of your advanced aeronautical and military technology geeks were turned into goo.

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Murphy mutters...

Posted January 30, 2011
Oh, we've had this discussion before, Blarkon.

I'd say, given the number of Wasp Class ships in inventory, it would not be an issue to find the parts. There is the also the fact that depots are available with parts and the like.

Furthermore, the U.S. still retains some capacity to maintain and repair in the areas unaffected by the Wave. There is a major naval installation at Puget.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/puget_sound-nsy.htm

There is the Boeing Facility in Seattle. There is Pearl Harbor. As for spares, as I said before, I'd contract with overseas suppliers such as the Japanese and the South Koreans for this. Many of the needed components are likely as not produced under license.

It is an old discussion, Blarkon. There'd be sufficient spares to last for quite sometime of husbanded carefully.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Murphy reckons...

Posted January 30, 2011
Per Puget from Global Security.

Puget Sound Naval Shipyard is the largest and most diverse shipyard on the West Coast, as well as being the northwest's largest naval shore activity. Additionally, it is the second largest industrial facility in the State of Washington, both in terms of plant investment and in the number of civilians employed. The shipyard mission is wide ranging in that it possesses the capabilities to overhaul and repair all types and sizes of ships of the United States Navy while also serving as home port for a nuclear aircraft carrier, two nuclear cruisers and three fleet support ships (two fast combat support ships (AOE), one replenishment fleet tanker (AOR)). The shipyard's other significant capabilities include alteration, construction, deactivation, and drydocking of all types of naval vessels. The shipyard has a state-of-the-art emergency power generating system capable of providing backup power for all ships. In addition to in-yard work, the shipyard has a very active program of providing repair teams to accomplish on-site repair work on a variety of naval ships at their home port locations. Puget Sound Naval Shipyard has been recognized as the Navy's best installation worldwide and is the recipient of the 1991 Commander-in-Chief's Installation Excellence Award.

I wouldn't be surprised if ships from other countries make their way to Puget for servicing. The US would have the advantage of charging cheaper rates than many other similarly equipped facilities.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Scott puts forth...

Posted January 30, 2011
Blarkon, I think that the tech base may have slipped back a few decades. Especially with things like GPS who if anyone is maintaining the GPS satalites? As for other equipment Japan could provide the tech base. I guess that rules of engagement for dealing with pirates are more like the 1850s than the 2000s?

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Murphy mumbles...

Posted January 30, 2011
I suspect there are gaps in sat coverage by the third novel since there would likely be no replacement launches. Each sat has a life expectancy of seven to eight years. That said, they could probably last longer.

The main thing you'd need is a master control station. The primary is located in Colorado, Wave affected territory. However, there are alternate stations outside of Wave affected territory.

I suspect GPS performance is akin to what it was during Operation Desert Storm, when the network was still not complete.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Murphy swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 30, 2011
Tangental link to the ruins of Detroit.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/26/detroit-decline_n_813696.html#218521

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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fknvty swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 30, 2011
the lads (ask for steve) down at the iron bottom sound pub (point cruz, solomon islands) would hafta sort you out with this one laddie, 'tis where 40 or so seppo navy warships were sunk during ww11 if i recall correctly.
note: can recommend the local home brewed karva it's fkn lethal if not equivalent to that uni lab acid stuff that therbsey is so fond of.
- mindinao has also been an interesting hot spot both currently and in former times. locals are pretty well out there or were the last time i dropped by.
- & don't forget them fkn israeli warmongers, apart from financing the whole tincan and 'floxim' flotilla they're fair to middling at illegal naval operations world wide.
they can also lie most of their gold teeth off under any circumstances, a definite asset with any 'allied taskforce'. pz.v.

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ConspiracyCat mutters...

Posted January 30, 2011
What's Hawaii's status post-wave? Did Elvis survive?

But seriously, there was an article a couple of weeks back about a handful of Somali pirates in a tinnie trying to overpower a British cruise ship. Imagine if they succeeded? "Ahoy there, scurvey land-lubbers! It be the plank for ye all! Arrrrgh!" And the cruise ship sails off over the horizon, leaving the passengers floating in the sea like so much pommy chum. Now wouldn't that make for a quirky plot tangent in AoV?

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John Birmingham would have you know...

Posted January 30, 2011
Blarkon, that's why you're looking at a Wasp Class LHD, rather than a proper carrier. Australia naval engineering capacity is up to maintaining one of those, especially cannibalizing stores and personnel from the US. They're a lot less complicated than subs or AWD's. The Japanese are more than capable of maintaining Aegis tech. A Wasp centred battle group is an order of magnitude less capable than a true carrier based group. But good enough for maintaining sea lanes in this scenario and interdicting pirates, of course.

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OzarkOrc asserts...

Posted January 30, 2011
Satelite coverage will probably be reasonably complete for a decade or so; It's the fuel to move ("retask/retarget" the things (Photo) that is the limitation. One of the original Space Shuttle Missions was to top them up...

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OzarkOrc mutters...

Posted January 30, 2011
This is (was?) the 2003 PLAN, not the 2010 model; Anyone have a Jane's or Combat Fleets (Or even IISS?) publication for the relevant year? Keep it handy.

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Blarkon mumbles...

Posted January 30, 2011
Okay - my main thought was after reading some bits and pieces about the increasingly complicated supply chains that are involved with aircraft - so while there is that facility that Murph pointed out, it is just sort of the endpoint of a massive web of components that come from a brazillion different locations.

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Murphy mumbles...

Posted January 30, 2011
There are over three hundred harriers in the U.S. inventory alone. A Wasp class maxes out at 20, more than a match for anything in the region. It'd be easy enough to get parts. I suspect most of those Harriers would be out of the country in any case.

It should also be pointed out that in addition to Australian facilities, there are facilities in South Korea and Japan which could do much of the maintenance work.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Anders reckons...

Posted January 30, 2011
South Korea, Singapore, Japan, Malaysia (possibly), Taiwan Australia and New Zealand would be the likely key players as there's already a good deal of interoperability.

Brunei would throw in for protection purposes. The Philipines are a possibility as well. An independent South Eastern chinese coast (or group of them) would be on board simply for the commercial opportunities.

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NBlob mumbles...

Posted January 30, 2011
I can see the villain from WW Cerski(? don't have copy handy) gettin' in on some sweet sweet recovery & reupply gov contracts.
Perhaps with some not so legit off the books customers.

Which kinda leads to an idea I've read a couple of times now of corpretised state/s, some with Org Crime links. If HyperGlobalMegaBusiness were to become the defacto government of a smallish failed state. Say Sumatra.

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Murphy mutters...

Posted January 30, 2011
After America alludes to the fact that the Australian Navy is growing along with the rest of the Armed Forces. I suspect that National Service would be implemented, which would not be popular. Given what I have read in Paul Ham's book on Vietnam and the attitude toward current operations that I've seen in Australian media, there would probably be resistance to National Service.

That said, in surveying Australian Naval Strength, it seems to me that the logical additions from former U.S. forces are as follows.

-1 Wasp and/or Tarawa Class ship.
-10 to 30 Harriers to operate from those ships or FOBs as needed.
-2 to 4 Arleigh Burke class destroyers, perhaps more. I am aware of Guru Bob's frequent comments that the ADF has trouble obtaining the human resources it needs in the current timeline.
-2 to 4 Perry class frigates

If Australia can get past the issues with nuclear power, I can see Los Angeles subs as well.

The Australian Army would likely expand. I suppose a wet dream is that they'd field the 2nd Armoured Regiment again. I'm not sure they really need a large tank army for defense purposes. I can't imagine anyone actually getting down there with the combat power to knock off the tanks they have.

I'm not all that sure they'd go with Brads either. I suspect the most reasonable solution would be to go with Marine surplus LAVs which are similar to the ASLAVs.

As for the RAAF, I'd think they'd want to get some F-14s for long range defense and strike. I also suspect that the United States would probably maintain the F-14 in service for territorial defense (in our timeline, the Tomcat was retired as a budget cutting measure).

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Havock ducks in to say...

Posted January 30, 2011
The primary group, those with Voting rights, will be the founding countries of the alliance. Banded together initially. All other will be non voting.

LHD's are great units, but lets also face facts, the Harriers whilst great birds have really short legs and why use Naval air power, which BTW, has high maint units, is dangerous and are vulnerable, when land based units can deliver three times the fire power. Reach further and by virtue of the fact the assets are not on the ship. Infinitely safer.

So, teh focus will be bases, but LHD's could sail into trouble spots, provide convoy escorts and the likes.

Dont think that carriers will be scrapped, the world still is not a safe place. Remember also, that carriers are a great ASW platform and birds launched from a carrier pack a greater punch.

LHD's...VTOL, they aint no ski jump mini carrier either,

Figure the US would in conjunction with other countries have at least a carrier for the IO..thats prolly gunna be Aust and other subsidising it heavily, most likely in Port Most of the time. At least one in the Pacific, centered around Pearl.

I've made my thoughts known in scribbles. Brunei, great place for a base. I discounted the Phillipines as being to far Nth and east, plus its instability is also an issue. Then add logistics to it as well.


If you check a map, jmup off points, well you have Aust, then you have Brunei, then Taiwan, then Japan and its islands. thats a chain of bases.

Nuke subs will still be roaming about somewhat, but SSK's are far far cheaper to run and by a large factor, better suited to the littoral environment.

You will have hunter groups of surface vessels. Very mnuch a sword and shield arrangement with these groups. One flagship with significant ASW / AAW and perhaps OTH SSM's. The a number of smaller attack craft and missile boats.

Fact is, the Burke class cans are very good for the flag role, possibly nothing anywhere else as good. Also, they migrated away from Aluminium in the construction of these ships after the Falklands. They found out that Ali ships tend to really fkn burn when hit. Burke class are STEEL, designed to take hits and especially designed to take hits from gun boats etc. NOT armoured like a battle ship...but good enough. You would also find that ADD"S would be made in terms of organic type weapons on these vessels too.

malaysia / singapore, will have help from Brunei, Australia and the likes. The Malacca strights are gunna be swarming with Pirates, shipping getting thru will be an issues.

Look for ships forming into convoys, possibly 5-10 ships plus escorts and then utilising the Lombok or sunda straights. Also means aircover from Brunei, and Nthrn Aust is able to be deployed. subs at points etc.

You will also find merchantmen doing solo runs, getting attacked and screaming for help.

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Havock puts forth...

Posted January 30, 2011
Pretty close I think Murph. The tom's wouldn't be needed I think, I suspect the RAAF would opt for additional Hornets or F15's as we have the F111's in the time line. They would stay, possible purchase additional frames etc from US at some point. So in terms of STRIKE, long range strike thats covered. Its short haul and Air superiority, the Echo's would be a first choice.

4-6 burkes would be about right, and 3 LHD's. 2 operational at any one time and one in for minor works repairs etc and crew rotation.

manpower will not be an issue either i think.

1 National service.
2 Oversea's personell that want to stay and hence have a continue to serve period as well.

LAV's will be the option, as they fit better than the Brads like you say. HOWEVER, its not beyond possible that the US would ask for Aust to raise heavy combat units?????...whats their longer term plan, what do they see coming etc. It not really about defending just Australia any more and the Pollies will be thinking strategically.

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Murphy reckons...

Posted January 30, 2011
Havock, you use a carrier when you need to put air power on a target which is outside the reach of your land based forces. Further, in an ideal world, you would go for forward air bases. However, all one needs to do is look at the U.S. experience in that respect to see why . . . well, we have so many carriers.

The LHD doesn't have to go with a full 20 Harrier load on every mission. In fact, they normally go helicopter heavy as needs must. Still, when the Brits went to retake the Falklands, they configured their carriers for maximum Harrier capacity.

As for a Nimitz, it costs eight times as much to operate a Nimitz class. While Puget Sound could maintain a Nimitz, and there are carrier pilot training facilities in the area, I suspect that folks like Orin and Blarkon would argue that the lack of money would bring a halt to such operations.

Me personally? If I were Kipper, I think I'd want to hang onto a Nimitz operationally with two in reserve. If my population were closer to 72 million (roughly what Britain's is) then I could probably get away with that. However, a population of 20 million tops? And the economy is in the tank?

The more I think on it, the more I believe the U.S. would use her remaining naval capacity to provide deterrence and to keep the Pacific/Indian Ocean Sea Lanes open.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Murphy reckons...

Posted January 30, 2011
The Tomcat has the longest reach, as I understand it, Havock. I'd have to check. Still, if you went with the F-15, you'd have resources from Korea and Japan to draw upon.

I simply can not see why the Australian Army would need more tanks. As I understand it the Army has less than sixty Abrams tanks now? Even if you double that number and fit out another regiment, I'm not sure what you'd use it for. Invading any of the regional neighbors would require a far larger force. Given the terrain in the region, I'm not sure how much value an Abrams would be.

Conversely, I suspect Australia herself would provide excellent opportunities for tank warfare, IF an opponent were able to land in sufficient force. Given the situation, I can't see a D-Day style invasion taking place.

I can see a refugee overflow problem, but that would likely require an increase in light infantry and police.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Murphy is gonna tell you...

Posted January 30, 2011
Hmm, actually the F-15 would have a wider combat radius. I stand corrected.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Havock asserts...

Posted January 30, 2011
Murph, ref the Tomcat, its got the longest reach inn terms of Fighter cover projection. For ASUW, then the F111 eats it alive. So I was basing the F15's or additional Hornets on mainly only requiring fighter cover, that can double as air to mud if required. Tankers will be aplenty I suspect, so legging some F18's further is not a drama. Main surface surveilence will be prop jobs. P3's will be working flat out, I see MORE being acquired from the US, once again for SLOC protection. Once threats are identified, the P3's can deal with it, ours are Harpoon capable, or F111's.


depending on the scenario of the book, you would want or not, the additional MBT's. Now if its trade goods being swapped over, I see some additional units, if its for other strategic purposes...most definately. Other wise its light infantry, mech mobile and chopper mobile. NORFORCE and Light infantry for the northern reaches.


Perhaps some of the heavy units ( elements of the First) armoured are redeployed OS into the northern area's to lend assistance.

Its not about open tank warfare. its about presence really with those units.


here is a real kicker, the M1 req nearly three times the maint man hours of a leopard 1, 2 times the maint man hours of the leopard 2 and parts....all parts come from the US.

Vehicle availability will be a bitch to maintain. I see additional units being delivered here and then units being cannibalised for parts as required.

The Hornets will be the bird of choice..we do nearly ALL maint here, have nearly all parts, but again, given a draw down on carriers, birds will be available to strip if required.

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Havock would have you know...

Posted January 30, 2011
OK..ref ya fleet.

if operating in say the sth china sea or that kind of open water, not real close littoral stuff.

1 x LHD ( choppers)
1 x LHD ( Harriers )
2 ( my pref would be 3) DDG's maybe swap out a DDG for a CG ( tico).
1 x RAS ship
1 x munitions
4 x FFG's or
2 x FFG's and 4 DDH's type vessels. remember that the contributing states do not all have state of the art combat power..


PLUS..hunter / killer ready reaction surface warfare groups.

2 x FAST ATTACK CRAFT
2 x Armidale type craft
1 x DDG or FFG.


SSK's will operate independently.

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Murphy mumbles...

Posted January 30, 2011
Well, with the Abrams, I assure you, there will be no shortage of spare parts. As for reliability, aside from fuel consumption (the U.S. Army is looking to transition away from the turbine as I understand it), the Abrams is pretty reliable.

The Hornet is a good plane.

All of this is background material and probably will not be vital to the plot. I can't say anything more than that.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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John Birmingham mutters...

Posted January 30, 2011
Yes. It's all back story. But good fun.

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yankeedog is gonna tell you...

Posted January 30, 2011
South Africa as part of a 'Pacific Alliance'? While one might argue that they don't quite have the military machine they did in the 1970s and 80s, they do have some ability to grow food, a fairly strategic position, mineral wealth, and some Commonwealth ties. They should be able to at least protect themselves, project some limited power in neighboring countries, and generally keep order in its region of the world.

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fknvty is gonna tell you...

Posted January 30, 2011
'background material' (no toys) from the dark side:
- mention of the major players (IF you can think objectively) throughout history.
i distinctly remember this list ...
sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2007/02/125025.pdf
or here:
http://redantliberationarmy.wordpress.com/us-interventions/
enjoy.v.

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Havock asserts...

Posted January 30, 2011
DAWG!...its one of th reasons in the fan fic I had them are part of the alliance. PLUS. if the SUEZ is closed, all shipping transits STH, that makes the saffers vitally important!

HELL YES JB.

I'm not in the habbit of giving away secrets, but JUST nth of Darwin harbour is some islands. great from a tactical perspective in controlling what should and should NOT get into DARWIN, free port or not.

PLUS, the SIGNIT facilities will be relocated and being a freeport and kinda laced with ferals, the asset is to vital to have lost. RELOCATE IT and other elements to BATHURST!.

Expand NORFORCE, more littoral boats etc and they fan out from Bathurst Island, plus other locations along the coast.

Remember also, that just sth of Sumatra / Java and Timor, running east to west is a rather deep ocean trench. This just might afford NUKE subs, to transit back and forth, in deep water for policing and pirate duties. Plus, with Towed arrays deployed, its a fkn great sound channel. Operationally, any traffic ( surface) heading for OZ, crosses it.

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Havock reckons...

Posted January 30, 2011
Murph. not surprised on them looking at alternate, we run diesel in ours ( its a Multifuel engine), but running av gas, cant generate smoke and its still a fuel hog no matter what you use in really.

But it was designed for EUROPE, short or small operational theater of operations.

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Havock asserts...

Posted January 30, 2011
something else. All traffic from ME etc to Nth of Australia has to utilise one of three locations unless they wish to sail thru the Torres straights ( not an option for large commercial shipping) or sth down the Bight and passed Tasmania.

These are the main route of the Malacca straits, then you have the SUNDA and Lombok straits.

Sunda is the deeper and wider of the two. Splitting bali on the left heading NTH and the Island of LOMBOK on the right. Lombok runs on the east side of the island, is shallower and the current is much faster as well.

These three choke points...would be a pirates happy hunting ground, apart from about a bazillion other locations in the northern archipelago.

Surface fleets of some sort would definitely be required for these!

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Havock swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 30, 2011
The heavy lifting JB will be Singapore, Malaysia and Australia. The first two have very good navy's, by far the most powerful in the region with all three together.

Missile gun boats, frigates, corvetts, all good vessels for the AO they will play in. PLUS, Singapore has 4 LSD's as well,

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Sir Snagger mumbles...

Posted January 30, 2011
firstly, just like to say - LOVE THE BOOKS & BLOGS!!! been following for a while now so thought I might as well comment :P

As for the groups, the last couple sound about right I suppose but I definitely thing It'd be Australia and Singapore running the joint. The US obviously has it's own problems to deal with in the North Pacific.

Also reckon South Africa would take up a good part of partrols etc around their part of the Indian/Atlantic, but dunno bout spreading themselves too far out. Would the UK have any imput down this way or are they now just Atlantic based? Any other European countries still got their crap together? or Russia for that matter?

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Murphy is gonna tell you...

Posted January 30, 2011
I've been reading up on the South African Navy. They aren't in good shape circa 2003. Given the chaos in Europe, I do not see them getting their upgrades as they do in our own timeline.

That said, a base in South Africa may be vital.

Deployments and missions should probably be dictated by likely trading partners and trade routes.

Forex, while the South American Federation is nominally hostile to the remnant USA, is that the case with everyone else?

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Bunyip swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 30, 2011
What an interesting thread for a Sunday arvo and a beer. Or three.

Korea: What is happening with the surplus military? Given that NK and SK biggest threat is each other, and China has turned on itself, there could be leftover ground and air assets.

Apart from some of these turning mercenary*, there is the industrial might of South Korea. Some of this may retool to assist in the integration of NK, but some could go fishing for maintenance and supply contracts for the US military. Possibly for salvage concessions at the derelict facilities of their former competitors.

As per Murphy 2:06pm, refugees. Send them to California etc?

Last left field question: Burma aka Republic of the Union of Myanmar. Given my scant understanding international politics, as far as I understand they are a cryptic client state of the PRC, with a little support from IIRC France, in return for some gas and petroleum. If this is the case, to whom could/would Burma jump for support? India? Singapore?

Final comment: JB "Angels of Vengeance", working title or the one mooted in a Tweet in regards to discussion with publisher?

*Not thinking of "Die Hard III" and the former East Germans and Magyars. Honest.

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Moko ducks in to say...

Posted January 30, 2011
The Pacific Islands love a good stoush. Not much in the way of hardware, but the Fijians can't go anywhere without the Kiwi's and the Tongans and Samoans hate eachother enough to fight along side and fuck EVERYONE up. As for the Maori Battalion ... well ... 'None', as in the Ockers "Second to None".

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Bunyip has opinions thus...

Posted January 30, 2011
Postscript: Invasion of Australia? By whom? Where is the capacity within the region? And why? For land / living space? Resources, maybe, but that would imply a capacity to use those resources.

Indo is in no position, if I understand JB's cannon correctly, to mount a supported invasion. China? Cannon seems to imply otherwise.

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Chaz swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 30, 2011
Japan, Aus, Singapore (although they're really going to be concerned with keeping their SLOC's open) Taiwan (can't remember what happened to them), Malaysia (although they have same problem as) singapore, Vietnam (need protection form warring states to the north and the fallout of problems to the west).

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Havock ducks in to say...

Posted January 31, 2011
hmmmm, I'm still thinking more on the Indo going to shit issue. thats a MAJOR head FK for shipping no matter what way you look at it.

Maybe a left field one, coalition assumes control of Bali / lombok, helps keeps those straits open for shipping. Indo gummit ( in exile) of sorts , sets up camp in Bali?.

Jihadi specialists...will go beserk in Indo ( as its gone to pot). Thats RPG's and christ knows what else being shot at ANY SHIPPING which happens to take their fancy.

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Brian mumbles...

Posted January 31, 2011
Havock.

Indo Generals own Bali. Lots of Indo money in Queensland. Also Bali historically has fought Muslim incursions from Java.

Hmmph . . . .no one's mentioned Papua. Now that could cause problems . . . .big ships and tanks aren't going to play well in that country.

Scenario could play out as some sort of fundamentalist ethnic cleansing insurgency movement. Hmmm . . . .Fiji could become a player for one reason or another,

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Havock has opinions thus...

Posted January 31, 2011
Brian, rodger that!.

I was thinking that given Bali relies so much on the Tourist dollar has exposer etc, that Landing troops to secure the sea lanes might not be viewed by the locals as real bad, given the rest of Indo has descended into hell!.

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Guy has opinions thus...

Posted January 31, 2011
I strongly believe that Britain would want to contribute if only to stake a claim to continuing or increased influence in a radically changed world. The UK might well consider sending a destroyer or maybe just a token frigate. However, I admit the the calls on the Royal Navy post-wave would be likely to be severe (defence of the home islands, the continuing situation in the middle east and trying to help protect the east coast of North america from pirates/looters/jihadists etc) so perhaps there would be no surface craft to spare?

Perhaps London might send out one of the hunter-killer nuclear subs? They are powerful weapons but not perhaps as well suited as surface craft for some of the other roles the RN has to undertake. One of them might be spared and HMS Tireless or HMS Turbulent, armed, I think with cruise missiles and torpedos, would make a useful addition to any task force.

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NBlob has opinions thus...

Posted January 31, 2011
Righto. Ya'll have been thinking about the Good Guys.
Let's put an eyepatch on & say arr for a minute.

Piracy, like all commercial endeavours spans scales cottage industry to well equipped professional operations.
Bottom line is intercept, board and assume control of a target vessel.
The cottage industry end of the scale may only control for a few hours & only be the top decks while a team opens a couple of random de3ck height containers looking for trade goods to grab & go before the cavalry arrive.

Any attempt at holding a ship for ransom or proper unload requires taking the wheel house and sailing to a safehaven. Unloading anything more than a dinky little coastal trader (say 5000 ton) requires a port of substance with steveadore & crane capapcity. I don't believe it's possible to 'crane off' full containers @ sea. There are stories of pirates tieing off to top loaded containers and yanking them over the side, hoping A: that the containers float and B: that they can be towed to somewhere you can get at C: the hopefully unspoiled goodies inside.
I suspect any such port would be pretty quickly identified & put out of action. (Would make a crackin air strike target - a pirated oiler [refueling vessel] pumping out into improvised bunkering [fuel storage] at some pokey 3rd world port.)

So that leaves small scale Ma & Pa operations or politically / organised crime motivated & intel informed attacks.

If I was so inclined I'd use speed boats & motherships operating out of a minor minor minor port (Eg Brandan Barat, Sei Leppan district Sumatra). But that neccesitates an adequate supply of good quality Diesel & Unleaded. Not usual cargo on Maersk sized shipping.

Could the Malays / local Indon big man concoct a Mafia styled protection racket? That then gets away from them?

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mckinneytexas puts forth...

Posted January 31, 2011
No more alliteration? Damn.

Final Force

America Avenged

After, After America

Republic Reborn

Action Astards

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Murphy asserts...

Posted February 1, 2011
On a somewhat related note, I was pondering the future of U.S. fighter planes based on the fact that Boeing was the primary survivor in the post Wave environment. Even if the U.S. was cash strapped, the reality is that many other nations would still need fighter aircraft.

The F-22 program and the F-35 program would probably go by the wayside. Too expensive and Lockheed Martin would probably be a shambles. Boeing, on the other hand, is responsible for building the F/A-18 Hornet.

In fact, I suspect the plane of the future for the United States would probably be the F/A-18 Super Hornet. Most likely there would be a push to make this the fighter plane for all services.

Just a thought.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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savo has opinions thus...

Posted February 2, 2011
Where's Madoc?

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Bob Lingalong ducks in to say...

Posted February 2, 2011
Hmmm? Beyond America? I wouldn't include anything Brit in the pacific arena, the Royal Navy was very much Atlantic/Caribbean/Gulf deploymetns in 2003. But what about the 6th Fleet in the Mediterranean? Where might they be?

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Murphy ducks in to say...

Posted February 3, 2011
Bob, whatever was left of the 6th Fleet exfiltrated out of the region and made for home.

In fact, aside from token forces maintained in Puerto Rico (5 million citizens there with significant resources) and additional support along the East Coast as part of the effort to interdict illegal immigrants/migrants/settlers/jihadis.

The rest would probably be pulled back to Washington State at the Puget Sound Naval Station, Pearl Harbor, various locations along the Alaskan Coastline and finally various strategic depots in the Pacific and Indian Oceans.

Those ships which could not be used or sold to allies would be stored, guarded and used for spare parts. In the event of a worst case scenario the ships could be remobilized as needs must.

The only potential reason I can see for a full mobilization of those ships is an effort to evacuate the remaining population of the United States in the event of a catastrophe which threatened to wipe out the rest of the population. It would have to be a slow building catastrophe.

In fact, I suspect my opposite number, Lt Gen. Murphy in the Wave Universe, would probably recommend maintaining a number of Nimitz class carriers as evac/refugee ships.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Murphy is gonna tell you...

Posted February 3, 2011
Token, in my mind, is probably a U.S. Naval Reserve formation manned by Puerto Ricans with previous naval experience augmented by those who wished to resettle in Puerto Rico. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a large formation consisting of frigates centered around an Arleigh Burke destroyer with a sub or two tossed in.

In fact, I suspect Puerto Rico is probably one heavily armed, newly admitted state to the Post Wave United States of America.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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NBlob has opinions thus...

Posted February 4, 2011
Murph I'd imagine it'd be kept on a very short ressuply leash.

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Scott Stanley ducks in to say...

Posted February 7, 2011
Howdy,

Instead of the wasp class, I think it would be more interesting to have a Nimitz class carrier.

The supply chain would not allow a full air wing, but the nuclear power would mean you wouldn't need underway replenishment.

The carrier would be minimally manned, I'm thinking the catapults and arresting gear wouldn't work due to lack of parts, manpower, but it's huge size and unlimited range would make it very flexible.

Have 20 harriers and 30 helicopters, stuff a battalion of marines on board, escorted by one Virginia class submarine, and then the multinational force providing escort. Home port being hawaii. The Burke class ships are offensive weapons that can lurk off the Chinese coast.

And finally, a throwaway line about a surviving Halifax class frigate would be a great addition for the Canadian audience. The Canadian east coast navy base would have survived the wave, and Vancouver/Esquilmalt would be able to provide support.

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flakkie is gonna tell you...

Posted February 9, 2011
I can see so many possibilities here. australia has been buying naval assets from a parlous US. (assume aircraft carriers, aircraft and probably nukes). Oz and NZ are largely untouched so any fleet would be largley of that composition. Throw in some German, french and Italian craft as well, those that escaped the upheavals and pollution storms in Europe.

Australia also developed nuclear deterrents on its Northern coast and is constantly dealing with incursions of refugees from Indonesia.

Fleet in Darwin has several functions: a deterrent against invasion from the north, guarding disputed natural gas/oil resources around the South China Sea, and the Spratly Islands,piracy and people smuggling. New Guinea and Timor are largely left to themselves however a small naval contingent near Lae and Dili keep the peace - at least in the towns.

An addition to the fleet: a contingent from Israel, which is used to conduct legitimate piracy of its own.

Indonesia is bolstered by remnants of the Iranian navy that escaped the Israeli pogrom in the middle east.

Pirates have overrun and captured the Cocos Keeling islands, and have command of two captured virgin blue Embraer E190s. while the Islamic Jihad has overrun Christmas Island and have one small passenger jet. This operation is discreetly funded from Jakarta.

A second combined fleet is based in western australia to counter these two threats.

Back to the Combined Fleets: well they have a few problems, ammunition supply is erratic (though there is a growing munitions industry in australia ) however fuel poses a big big conundrum: Middle East oil is largely useless to refine due to contamination. Oil from south america is expensive, and that which is extracted from resources near Australia is high in sulphur content, which may cause problems with the more modern diesels. Enter Norway, which has largely intact oil assets in the North sea.

Elements of the Norwegian navy are used to interdict pirate and people smuggling activities to the northwest of Australia though they are not officially attached to the fleet based in Darwin or Freemantle.

A new asset to defend: with the demise of Nasa, Virgin Galactic has established a spaceport in Cape York, using salvaged spacecraft from the US. the facility is used mainly to launch surveillance craft into orbit.

Australia also revives its Coastal Watch programme which largely comprises of volunteers equipped with radio equipment who liase with the Fleet. I might also add Australia has acquired some hurricane watch aircraft from the US at a bargain price,.

Fuel: I mentioned oil, but everything more refined, such as kerosene, Jet-A1 and petrol are also more scarce and expensive. Home heating oil is a luxury for the very rich.

As for US craft? Well there aren't many left as they have been sold off to Australia, New Zealand and Great Britain. Maybe there were a small number of ships in or near Hawaii, but they are needed in that area of operations, dealing with Indonesian, chinese and russian pirates marauding near the marianas, tonga and fiji.

Meanwhile the island of Diego Garcia, is bristling with ordinance and has rejected the authority of the US and UK governments.

A radar installation in the Marshall islands is extremely vulnerable.


New Zealand has established it's own naval presence in the Cook Islands .

Pirates (possibly from South America) have been repelled from Norfolk and Lord Howe islands.


There you go Mr Birmingham its a bit of a ramble but I enjoy your books.

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flakkie mutters...

Posted February 9, 2011
I can see so many possibilities here. australia has been buying naval assets from a parlous US. (assume aircraft carriers, aircraft and probably nukes). Oz and NZ are largely untouched so any fleet would be largley of that composition. Throw in some German, french and Italian craft as well, those that escaped the upheavals and pollution storms in Europe.

Australia also developed nuclear deterrents on its Northern coast and is constantly dealing with incursions of refugees from Indonesia.

Fleet in Darwin has several functions: a deterrent against invasion from the north, guarding disputed natural gas/oil resources around the South China Sea, and the Spratly Islands,piracy and people smuggling. New Guinea and Timor are largely left to themselves however a small naval contingent near Lae and Dili keep the peace - at least in the towns.

An addition to the fleet: a contingent from Israel, which is used to conduct legitimate piracy of its own.

Indonesia is bolstered by remnants of the Iranian navy that escaped the Israeli pogrom in the middle east.

Pirates have overrun and captured the Cocos Keeling islands, and have command of two captured virgin blue Embraer E190s. while the Islamic Jihad has overrun Christmas Island and have one small passenger jet. This operation is discreetly funded from Jakarta.

A second combined fleet is based in western australia to counter these two threats.

Back to the Combined Fleets: well they have a few problems, ammunition supply is erratic (though there is a growing munitions industry in australia ) however fuel poses a big big conundrum: Middle East oil is largely useless to refine due to contamination. Oil from south america is expensive, and that which is extracted from resources near Australia is high in sulphur content, which may cause problems with the more modern diesels. Enter Norway, which has largely intact oil assets in the North sea.

Elements of the Norwegian navy are used to interdict pirate and people smuggling activities to the northwest of Australia though they are not officially attached to the fleet based in Darwin or Freemantle.

A new asset to defend: with the demise of Nasa, Virgin Galactic has established a spaceport in Cape York, using salvaged spacecraft from the US. the facility is used mainly to launch surveillance craft into orbit.

Australia also revives its Coastal Watch programme which largely comprises of volunteers equipped with radio equipment who liase with the Fleet. I might also add Australia has acquired some hurricane watch aircraft from the US at a bargain price,.

Fuel: I mentioned oil, but everything more refined, such as kerosene, Jet-A1 and petrol are also more scarce and expensive. Home heating oil is a luxury for the very rich.

As for US craft? Well there aren't many left as they have been sold off to Australia, New Zealand and Great Britain. Maybe there were a small number of ships in or near Hawaii, but they are needed in that area of operations, dealing with Indonesian, chinese and russian pirates marauding near the marianas, tonga and fiji.

Meanwhile the island of Diego Garcia, is bristling with ordinance and has rejected the authority of the US and UK governments.

A radar installation in the Marshall islands is extremely vulnerable.


New Zealand has established it's own naval presence in the Cook Islands .

Pirates (possibly from South America) have been repelled from Norfolk and Lord Howe islands.


There you go Mr Birmingham its a bit of a ramble but I enjoy your books.

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flakkie would have you know...

Posted February 9, 2011
more chaos
Singapore is severely effected by the Disappearance. Up until 2003 it was the busiest port in Asia. Now it is thrown back to the days of the Malayan emergency, not only wary of the issues in Indonesia, but also communist and islam threats from Malaysia and beyond.

.

elsewhere, Koh Samui is a pirate haven and any luxury cruises into the south china sea bathtub must have a destroyer escort. These are provided from Darwin - at a high price.

On the western coast of Malaysia, Malacca is a hub of pirate activity in the straits, while Penang's Georgetown becomes the new Macau. The Brunei sultanate is a luxurious peaceful haven, which covertly funds piracy in part to disrupt islamic elements.

After recalling it's citizens the singapore Air Force bombs the road link to Malaysia and employs two mercenary american destroyers and a nuclear submarine to police the area. An invasion is thrown back, and Malaysias capital is reduced to radioactive dust by three 300kt warheads.

This brings the mercenaries into conflict with the australian fleet whose government denounces Singapore and declare the mercenaries as outlaws along with their employer.. A battle ensues, with Darwin, Dili, Port Moresby, Cairns, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Georgetown and Malacca rendered uninhabitable.

Brunei remains untouched and with one nuclear warhead, purchased on the black market, seeks advantage.

Burma subjugates Thailand assisted by several hundred thousand north Korean army personnel, who are unable to reconcile the union of their beloved country with south Korea.

Japan deploys naval resources to the remanants of the combined fleet, which still has assets near Townsville, Cape York, and Freemantle.

Pirates freely roam the pacific and indian oceans and sea travel without naval escort becomes erratic and expensive.

Meanwhile, Tasmania, sits alone and dreaming to the south, unaware that pirates, now organised into a semblance of order, and commanding a ex-UK aircraft carrier, french destroyers and Iranian and Lebanese fighter jets are approaching, with only to destroyers and a submarine in Melbourne in the way....

well the world's gone awry so might as well go all the way..

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flakkie puts forth...

Posted February 10, 2011
America: President Kipper has razed New York which is now a decaying ruin holding nothing of value. The americans continue to repopulate the midwest, fanning out from Kansas to Missouri, Iowa, Ohio. Middle America is very like the old West. The Greens turn nasty and try to disrupt the new expansion, and narrowly fail in an attempt to kill Kansas City with a dirty bomb. The perpetrators are found, and executed.....the highest of that echelon being very close to president Kipper.

China's civil unrest begins to reverse with a central government taking hold in the Rust Belt, a region formerly dominated by communist era steel factories. Taiwan remains a separate, and prosperous entity, for now.

North Korea, recently reconciled with the South, is devastated by an eruption of Mt Baeku, close to the chinese border. Thousands die in the pyroclastic flows and ash falls.

South Africa proclaims itself the Black Republic, expelling all white-skinned people and erecting a massive concrete wall along the length of its border.

India and Pakistan, which are in the majority radioactive wastes, fight a final war with knives, shovels and various farm implements. Afterwards the river Ganges is choked with bodies.

In south america, Argentina, realising there will be no UK SAS troops to contend with, retake the Falkland Islands.

Scientists find the cause of the Wave, and the revelation is shocking: (insert guesses here)

Russia has descended into chaos, with no central government and the mafia in control. Ukraine and belarus have hold over nuclear missile silos.

Eastern europe is uninhabitable, though a few people here and there exist, scratching out a living from the polluted earth, In major cities like Prague, Warsaw, Brussels, and Amsterdam, bodies rot in the streets.

In Rome, a juvenile Pope John XX sends forth a crusading army to invade Switzerland, France, Protugal and Spain, a new Roman Emipire is at hand.

Tel-Aviv realises a massive mistake as fallout and contamination begin to affect the state of Israel, in a few short years, Israel, Iran, Syria, greater egypt, Lebanon and Turkey are toxic wastelands.

Germany and France declare themselves Islamic Republics, in response the UK collapses the England-France Chunnel.

Finland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark unite and invade the north of Germany. The Battle of the Bulge is fought again.

and then god, who purportedly does not exist, picks up the earth, looks at it, snorts in disgust before scrunching it up and throwing it in the bin.

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El Coqui would have you know...

Posted February 10, 2011
If we sell the Nimitz to other nations, they will have to create an infrastructure to support them and the US can tap into that to support those we choose to keep.

I see the main US contribution as providing naval aviation and long range strike capabilities.

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Respond to 'A little world building challenge.'

Rhino Fan fic.

Posted January 14, 2011 by John Birmingham
Flipper’s Bitch

By Roger Ross

Based on Characters Appearing in After America by John Birmingham. Also Based on Characters Appearing in Secondary Mission WW Fanfic Cmdr Havoc by Andrew “Havock” Porter.

WARNING – Some NSFW language and situations. You have been warned.

Financial District, Manhattan, New York City Federal Controlled Area

“Tell me, again, please, why it is you dragged your half-recuperated carcass out of bed to go on this fool’s errand?”

The very large man wedged behind the wheel of the dented and dusty Range Rover battled with the shift in a futile attempt to slow down in time to weave around the mid-street pile-up of taxis that would never take another fare, a losing battle from the sound of grinding rising from the gear box, just scowled and mumbled around his cigar, “Well, Miss Jules, word was they was lookin’ for some rated seamen to help out on some search and rescue ops and I was sick of lying around and I figured you were probably bored too and it might be nice to spend a day at sea to blow the stink off us as it were”.

“Rhino, my man, how is it that you think that a day of patrolling in a polluted bay off the coast of a dead city and potentially mixing it up with pirates and other assorted scum constitutes a leisurely day at sea?”

“A Rhino is a sensitive creature Miss Jules and you could hurt his feelings with such talk as not so long ago we were some of that ‘assorted scum’ as I recall.”

Lady Julianne Balwyn couldn’t stifle a smile as she replied, “Point taken. OK then. Drive on Jeeves and please blow some of that foul smoke out of your own window would you”?

The Range Rover pulled around the corner slowed to a stop before a road block surrounded by sandbag bunkers armed with .50 cal machine guns and a couple of armored personnel carriers for backup. “They sure are taking port security seriously now aren’t they”, said Rhino as an MP in full battle rattle and his backup walked up to the window and requested IDs and work orders. Rhino handed over the requested documents and waited patiently for the MP to work through them. Looking at the IDs and then looking at Rhino first and then taking an appreciably longer look at Jules, the MP handed the documents back to Rhino and said, “You can park your vehicle over there sir and then head over to the command hut for an assignment. Keep your IDs prominently displayed and don’t stray from the general area as there is a standing shoot and ask questions later order in effect. We’ve had some trouble with infiltrators testing security.”

“No problem son, and don’t call me sir, I was a Chief and we work for a living.”

The MP laughed and signaled for the gate to be opened and passed the Rhino and Jules through.

Temporary Naval Coast Patrol Command Center, Staten Island Ferry Terminal, Manhattan, New York City Federal Controlled Area

The command hut, really a very large tent, was a scene of controlled mayhem as Jules and Rhino were intercepted by a sailor situated just inside the door. The sailor scanned their documents and directed them in the direction of a desk further inside.

Moving against the crowd they made their way to their destination, a desk manned by an ensign fronted with a neatly lettered sign that said Civilian SRO Assignments. He took their documents and wasted little time getting down to business. “Your role will be search and rescue for any asset requiring assistance in your assigned area of responsibility. Scuttlebutt is that something big is going down today and we’re heavy on boats and short of trained personnel to man them. I see you’re rated to skipper utility boats so that’s where I’m sending you. What about your crewman?”, he said looking at Jules, “What can she do?”

Rhino blew a smoke ring and responded, “Let’s just say that she can play a deck gun like a Stradivarius fiddle.”

“Good enough” the ensign replied, “Because we’re short of shooters as well so it’ll only be the two of you, a medic and another shooter out there.”

“Mighty thin, dontcha’ think?”

“Well, the idea is that when you get there all the shootin’ should be over. Just sign here.”

The Rhino signed the orders and pocketed a copy.

“Good luck and please bring my boat back in one piece.”

“Oh yeah” chuckled Rhino, “We’re real gentle with equipment”.

Onboard UTB-41387, Lower Bay, New York Federal Controlled Area

After greeting his “crew” for the day Rhino piloted the old, but well maintained, utility boat away from the dock and guided her gently into the sea lane between Ellis and Liberty Islands on the right and Governor’s Island on the left and set a course that would take them into the lower bay. There they’d check-in with SRO command for their assigned area of responsibility. It felt good to be back at the helm of a utility boat and it took Rhino back years, “Oh, yeah, I was fulla’ piss and vinegar back then.”

“What was that Rhino?” Jules asked as she prepped the deck mounted .50 cal just aft of the open helm.

“Oh, nothin’ Miss Jules, just reminiscin’ is all. Don’t mind an old salt”.

A low rumbling bass, quickly building in intensity, brought him out of his revelry and he stepped back away from the helm he began searching the sky eventually finding what he was looking for. Reaching over he tapped Jules on the shoulder and pointed skyward, “Well, would you look at that.” The flight of the squadron of B-52s and leading attack aircraft coming in from the west rumbled over the bay and, climbing, continued out into the open ocean. “I wonder what the propeller heads are planning this time; looks like they’re not heading for the city.”

Jules, shielding her eyes, stared after them as they droned past. “I don’t know what they’re after either but I hope they give them a jolly good rogering before they can get to us.”

The utility boat made its way under the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge and continued out into the lower bay. Rhino steered a general course that would take them near the center of the bay so as to be best positioned when, or if, a call came in. Rhino took a moment to radio in to SRO command to report their readiness.

Forty five minutes or so of slow trolling along the gentle swells and enjoying the salt air ended with what sounded like rolling thunder. Looking east Rhino could see flashes of exploding ordinance. The explosions continued for close to 15 minutes before they stopped as quickly as they started. “Holy Hannah, someone took one helluva’ pasting. I hope that whoever they’re giving it to doesn’t have anything that can reach them.”

As if on cue the radio broke the sudden silence as SRO Command hailed them.

“UTB-41387, you have a task order. Over.”

“Roger, SRO Command, this is UTB-41387 ready to receive. Over”

“UTB-41387, you are to proceed at your best speed to the following coordinates, latitude, 40.500747, longitude 73.838425, and begin S&R activities. We have one downed bomber out there and we need to get that crew back. Over.

“Roger that SRO Command, UTB-41387 is to make way to latitude, 40.500747, longitude 73.838425, and begin S&R activities. What the hell happened?”

“Word is that some hotshot colonel decided that it would be a good idea to showboat and do a low flyover of the engagement area. Evidently, he got his wings clipped by a survivor with a SAM.”

“Roger that SRO Command, UTB-41387 out.” Rhino turned to his crew of three and shouted, “Grab onto to something cause we’re about to see what this ol’ girl can do and we don’t have time to turn back if you go overboard”. With the warning given, Rhino pushed the throttles forward and the Cummins diesel responded with a throaty growl and quickly got up to speed. Soon they were flying over the waves, with no clue whatsoever of what they would find when they got there.

Onboard UTB-41387, Atlantic Ocean, Latitude, 40.500747, Longitude 73.838425,

As they approached their designated search area Rhino brought them onto a heading that would allow them to begin a standard grid search pattern. “Keep an eye out for any emergency rafts or parachutes and one eye out for any unfriendly types as well” Rhino instructed as he tuned their radio to the frequency for emergency transponders. It wasn’t long before they picked up the monotonous beeping of a transponder nearby and soon after that the volunteer manning the gun on the foredeck shouted back that he had spotted one of the bright orange emergency personal life rafts about 100 yards off their starboard bow. Rhino eased the utility boat in that direction, taking his time and keeping an eye out for anyone floating nearby. As he eased closer to the raft he could see that there were three people in flight suits hanging onto the sides of the raft, waving and yelling for his attention.

Jules and the Rhino quickly hauled the downed air crew into the boat as the medic unpacked his gear in anticipation of treating injuries. Ejecting from a wounded bomber was not the most gentle of activities. The crew was shaken-up, all suffering from various bumps and contusions and one of them had a broken leg, but that was the worst injury and at first blush it looked like all of them would pull through.

One of the airmen with captain’s bars on his flight suit grabbed Rhino by the arm and said, “You’ve got to find Colonel Porter and Lieutenant Van den Hurk. The Colonel kept us in the air long enough for us to eject and the LT’s chute fouled and we didn’t see her reserve deploy until she was almost in the drink.”

“What’s your name son?”

Captain Hernandez, sir.”

“Now don’t go getting’ all formal on me son, I’m just a retired Chief that happens to work for a living. But if your Colonel and crewmate are out here I will sure as hell do everything that I can to find them. So, just lay back and let the Rhino do what he does best. What heading was that bomber on when you ejected?”

Captain Hernandez replied, “She went in west by southwest of here. We saw the Colonel’s chute deploy but he was too far away for us to get there.”

Rhino turned back to the helm and set a course to look for the downed Colonel. Captain Hernandez laid back and closed his eyes as he felt the boat come up to speed. He was surprised to hear a cultured English accent asking him if he would like some water or whether he needed anything else. He opened his eyes to see a striking woman standing over him, bottle of water in one hand and blanket in the other. He could only stutter a “thank you” as he took the proffered bottle and drank it greedily. “Mam, may I ask you a question?”

Jules turned back to the Captain, “Sure, go ahead.”

“Did that really big man say that his name was Rhino?”

Jules, laughing, replied, “That he did, and do yourself a favor and don’t go asking him about petting any kitty cats.”

Completely confused, Hernandez just nodded and laid back thinking, “I must be delirious. Thank god that I decided to fly planes.”

As Rhino continued on a course that he hoped would bring him to the downed Colonel and Lieutenant he heard Morse code coming over the emergency transponder frequency of the radio.

“Hey, Jules, c’mere and tell me if I’m hearing what I think I’m hearing.”

Jules made her way to the helm and listened to the radio, “Sounds faint, like a short range signal. Let me see if I can boost the signal”. Jules fiddled with the radio a bit and the beeps came in much clearer. “I’m a little rusty but it sounds like a group of people talking back and forth. Very odd, it sure doesn’t sound like any kind of conversation you would expect out here.

The longer that Jules and Rhino listened to the transmission the more confused they became. It sounded more like a pack of drunken louts at a sporting event than any kind of nautical activity they would have expected this far out. Jules broke the silence saying, “Did I just hear what I think I heard?”

“Well, if you just heard, ‘It’s my turn, you’re taking too long” then, yeah, you heard right.

They continued to listen to the broadcast and mentally translated the conversation, “This one is for the marines fly boy”

“Don’t break him, I want another go around.”

“Oh yeah, a little skinny, but any port in a storm I say.”

“My turn to salute the colonel”

“Hey, I think I have enough squid ink now.”

With that last comment Jules looked at Rhino and said, “Oh my god, do you think he was captured by pirates and they are sodomizing him?

“We’ll find out soon enough, that signal strength indicates that we should be right on top of them - odd that we haven’t seen another boat yet. Keep a sharp lookout. I don’t want to walk into an ambush before we have a chance for a little payback.”

Moments later Jules spotted the bright orange personal life raft and pointed it out to Rhino. Once again slowing the boat to keep from swamping the small raft Rhino came to a stop and looked down to see an unconscious man draped over the side of the raft with his legs in the water. There was blood everywhere on the sides of the raft and in the water and Hernandez came to the rail and said, “The Colonel” as he and Rhino quickly pulled the man onto the utility boat. “Thank God he’s breathing”. Rhino did a double take as something else stood out as extremely odd about the scene; there were dozens of dead squid floating on the water. What the hell kind of mess did they sail into? This guy was only out here for a couple of hours. Rhino laid the unconscious man down on the deck and let the medic get to work finding and treating his injuries. Jules looked over at Rhino from behind her machine gun and shrugging her shoulders said, “There isn’t another boat in sight anywhere. Where did those signals come from?”

“Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth, as soon as the medic tells me he is stable enough to move we are tearing ass out of here.”

The medic, finding no open wounds on the front of the Colonel turned him over to search his back. Gagging, he jumped up and ran to the rail where he spewed his breakfast over the side. Rhino turned to look at what caused the man to lose it and though he thought that he’d seen just about every human depravity since the wave changed the world there was nothing that could explain what he was looking at. The Colonel’s flight suit looked as if it had been chewed through around his buttocks area and it was plain to see that was the source of all of the blood.

Jules gaped at the Colonel’s bloody orifice, stifling her gag reflex, and muttered, “Christ almighty, who in the hell did that to him?

Rhino replied, “We’re not waiting to find out”. He turned to the medic and said, “Get your ass over here and help that man. If he bleeds out it is on your head and you don’t want to answer to me.” With that he turned back to the helm and as he began to push the throttles forward another burst of Morse code sounded from the radio, “Hey, Big One, don’t be so fast taking our boy toy”.

Jules, an incredulous look on her face, looked at the radio, at Rhino, at the Colonel and then back at Rhino then realizing someone was speaking to them she began swinging her gun in an arc behind the boat looking for a target while saying, “Where the hell did that come from?”

“Look down cutie, maybe you can play next” came from the radio.

Jules looked overboard and saw a dolphin with a metal harness and headset strapped around its head and body, almost like tactical radio gear for a soldier, and what looked like a short radio antenna mounted just behind the dorsal fin. Another spurt of code came over the radio, “Yeah, sweetheart, you like what you see? I got a little something for you, come on in, the water is fine”. Jules saw more movement in the water and made out several more dolphins, all similarly attired in that unbelievable gear.

“Fat fucking chance of that happening shark bait” Jules replied, stopping short as she realized that she was fending off the advances of a randy dolphin.

The radio chatter continued, “Just throw the skinny one back in and we’ll call it even. I think I’m in love. Or, better yet, push the fat one out, he’s got more cushion for the pushin’ and he’ll float” Jules could swear that the dolphin was laughing as it rocked its head back and forth while emitting a high pitched squeaking sound. The squeaking suddenly ended in the equivalent of a dolphin scream as Rhino emptied the clip of his semi-automatic .45 into the head of depraved creature.

Watching the dolphin sink out of sight, Jules turned to Rhino and said, “I think that’s our cue to get the hell out of Dodge as you Yanks like to say.”

Rhino ran to the helm and pushed the throttles all the way forward and the boat quickly gained speed. The dolphins kept pace, leaping gracefully in the wake of the utility boat, but not able to overtake her. Eventually the dolphins fell behind and a fading Morse code message was received, “We know what you look like fat man so I wouldn’t go swimming anytime soon if you know what’s good for you”. That was the last message received until Rhino called in their status to SRO Command and piloted them back to the docks where an ambulance was waiting to take the aircrew for treatment. Thankfully, the Colonel did not gain consciousness during the entire trip.

Temporary Naval Coast Patrol Command Center, Staten Island Ferry Terminal, Manhattan, New York City Federal Controlled Area

The naval Captain, Flinthart was the nametag on his uniform, sitting across the desk from Jules and Rhino said, “That has got to be the damndest after action review that I have ever heard. Dolphins you say? Wearing metallic harnesses and speaking through the radio using Morse code? Are you sure it wasn’t pirates that raped that colonel?”

Rhino, as titular commander of the SRO spoke for the pair, “I know it sounds crazy, but I swear on my sainted mother’s grave that is exactly what happened.”

“Well, there were always rumors about the intel geeks trying to train dolphins to find subs and that kind of thing. But this sounds like something from a B-movie.

Rhino just shook his head, “It was insane. It was almost like those dolphins had a personal vendetta for the poor guy.”

Just then the doors to the Captain’s office burst open and two men in suits walked in and closed the door behind them. The one on the left flashed credentials and without preamble one of them launched into what sounded like a practiced speech, “I am Special Agent Birmingham and this is Special Agent Murphy, what happened today is a matter of national security and is classified as above top secret. You are to never speak of this to anyone, ever. If you do so, trust me, I will find out, and you will be hunted down and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Do you understand?”

Rhino and Jules looked at each other and simply nodded assent.

“I am glad to see that you are cooperating. Considering what you two have been up to recently, I would say that cooperating is the wisest decision you have made in awhile. Now, I would strongly suggest that you two make arrangements to leave the Federal Controlled Zone and get about your business elsewhere.” Evidently saying everything they came to say, the agents turned and left, closing the office door behind them.

Captain Flinthart looked back and forth between Jules and Rhino and said, “Who are you people? Belay that, I don’t want or need to know. I believe that we are through here. Good luck to you”. With that dismissal the pair stood and walked out.

“Jules, before we go, I want to stop over at the hospital and see how that Colonel is”.

“Do you think that is wise at this point?”

Rhino considered her point as he cut and lit a fat cigar, “Hell, girl, for as long as you’ve known me now has that ever been a consideration?”

Mercy Class Hospital Ship, USNS Comfort

Jules and Rhino peeked around the curtain to see a nurse removing a pair of surgical gloves and tossing them into a pan filled with bloody bandages, “Its OK, you can come in as long as you don’t wake him. He is resting comfortably but he still has the occasional screaming fit”. It didn’t look so comfortable to Rhino. The poor bastard was situated on his knees with his ass in the air, supported by a complex harness and pulley system and it looked like his face was pushed into his pillow.

“How is he doing nurse?”

“Oh, he’ll be fine … eventually. The physical wounds are healing. It is the mental wounds that are going to take time. I doubt he’ll ever be fit to fly again. A shame, really, I’ve been doing this for over fifteen years and this is the first case of man rape I’ve ever seen. What kind of depraved people could do such a thing? A Captain Hernandez was by earlier, another boat recovered the body of the last member of their crew, and he was confirming the identity, and when he saw Colonel Porter it was everything he could do to not break down.

“Well, thank you nurse, we’ll just be going now.

“I’m glad you stopped by, this poor soul is going to need all of the support he can get. I mean, not only raping the poor man but tattooing him as well? Barbaric.”

That stopped Rhino dead in his tracks and as he turned back he asked, “Did you say tattooed?”

“Yes sir, it was on his buttocks. Looked like a prison tattoo – the ink was imbedded under the skin with a large needle or some other sharp object. Almost like a tribal design – doesn’t make sense”.

Rhino, remembering the dead squid around the Colonel’s raft mumbled, “Like a needle sharp tooth, maybe?”

The nurse paused, “I guess so, but I don’t think that something like that would be possible.” Anyway, it was gibberish”.

“Do you mind if I take a look?

“Well, I should protect the patient’s privacy but if you can shed any light on what it means, then I guess it would be OK”.

The nurse drew the curtain around the bed and pulled the Colonel’s gown aside to display a series of crudely formed dots and dashes etched into the fleshy part of his buttocks. As Rhino and Jules stared at the pattern it came into focus:

. - - .    . - . .    . .    . - - .    . - - .    .    . - .    …

- . . .    . .    -    - . - .   . . .

As realization dawned as to what she was looking at Jules hands flew to her mouth in an attempt to suppress the inappropriate laughter bursting forth. She turned and quickly fled down the corridor with a “Rhino, I’ll see you outside” over her shoulder.

Shocked, the nurse looked at Rhino angrily, “What was that about. I don’t see the slightest thing funny about this poor man’s situation”.

Rhino replied, “Mam, that isn’t a tribal pattern, That is Morse code.”

“OK, so, what does it mean?”

“I think it means that our dear Colonel here has a boyfriend”.

“What are you going on about?”

Rhino, slowly shaking his head said, “Mam, it says “Flipper’s Bitch”.

44 Responses to ‘Rhino Fan fic.’

Therbs puts forth...

Posted January 14, 2011
ROFLMAO! Well played, Rhino. Give your self a big fat seegar.

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Bunyip has opinions thus...

Posted January 14, 2011
Excellent trope.

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Paul Nicholas Boylan mumbles...

Posted January 14, 2011
Fucking KICK ASS!! The Rhino rules!

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Murphy mutters...

Posted January 14, 2011
This is great stuff.

Ah, only one slight problem.

Captain Hernandez is female. Reference Page 452 in the American version.

Still, good stuff.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Scott would have you know...

Posted January 14, 2011
Rhino you bastard now I have to clean up my keyboard. Coffee spray! Funny! Now was the colonel wearing hot pants?

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Paul Nicholas Boylan mutters...

Posted January 14, 2011
Count on Murph to identify the continuity error...

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Murphy mutters...

Posted January 14, 2011
PNB, it was an easy enough mistake to make. The gender reference was fleeting at best.

It is a good piece of writing, Rhino. If only my students had just a smidge of Rhino's ability to write.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Murphy asserts...

Posted January 14, 2011
Keep in mind, I let the mistake about Alaska's capital slip by me. It happens to everyone.

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Paul Nicholas Boylan swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 14, 2011
No it doesn't.

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John Birmingham mutters...

Posted January 14, 2011
I put that Alaskan error in on purpose. ON PURPOSE I tells ya!

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Havock would have you know...

Posted January 14, 2011
NOT TO SHABBY AT ALL!.


BUT!, you are a MARKED MAN!...oh how you are a fkn marked man!

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Paul Nicholas Boylan reckons...

Posted January 14, 2011
LOL @ JB

Inspector Clouseau: "Everything I do is planned perfectly."

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Murphy is gonna tell you...

Posted January 14, 2011
I'm never going to live it down. The fuck up over the Hopper I can drink away but Alaska is always going to give me nightmares. I wake up in cold sweats over it.

"Fuck me, the capital is in Juneau, not Anchorage? AUGH!"

Trinity has to douse me with cold water to get me out of it.

:)

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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FKNHVK mutters...

Posted January 14, 2011
FARK! Bestiality? ROIT. You want to turn it up to 11? I can FKN go past 11.

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Paul Nicholas Boylan mumbles...

Posted January 14, 2011
This shit is already cranked up to 11. There is nothing past 11.

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Havock mutters...

Posted January 14, 2011
I think the BIG FKN GIT needs to meet up with a BIG..FK OFF FKN Orangutan in INTENSE!..the fkn BASTARD!

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FKNHVK puts forth...

Posted January 14, 2011
The great FKN thing about INTENSE! is that as I write the FKN SEQUELS I can add more FKN !.

INTENSE!
INTENSE!!
INTENSE!!!
INTENSE!!!!

Sometimes I FKN amaze myself with my FKN genius!

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Trashman puts forth...

Posted January 14, 2011
God, you need serious help!

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Scott ducks in to say...

Posted January 14, 2011
I'm never going to feel comfortable around wildlife again. Thanks guys.

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yankeedog mumbles...

Posted January 14, 2011
Murph, don't sweat the whole capital of Alaska thing. Could've been worse. You could've screwed it up in Final Jeopardy and pissed away $10,000 and the game!

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Rhino swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 14, 2011
All,

Thank you - all of you are very generous with your praise. Honestly, though, I'm a little embarrassed by the effort as it is the first draft that I wrote in a few hours last week to try to get it out as quickly as possible while Havock's dolphin chapter was still fresh - and it is very rough. Unfortunately, massive flooding in Brisbane postponed it.

And, Murph, this is the Captain Hernandez from Havock's story - who I think is a guy. I don't think it is the same character as in the book. If I'm wrong - great eye.

R.

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Havock puts forth...

Posted January 14, 2011
Yeah well, to be brutally honest, its like Murph said, as for the rest of it. Well, to be honest, its not one step over the mark, its gone passed the mark by about eighty miles, deep into cunts act territory as far as I am concerned. Didn't see anything funny about it.

And whether you do or don't care or have a differing opinion, I do not really give a flying fuck.

I'm out
H

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Rhino swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 15, 2011
H,

I'll reach out to your personally, but I truly did not mean anything harmful or disrespectful. I thought that you'd have a laugh and bust my balls back. I completely respect, and am a fan of, your writing and what you do. I've obviously stepped over a line and I'm hoping that you will accept my most sincere apology.

Regards,
Roger

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Flipper’s Bitch – AA Fan fic – Roger Ross « The Mini-burger ducks in to say...

Posted January 15, 2011
[...] Rhino Fan fic. [...]

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Stevo 73 asserts...

Posted January 15, 2011
With all due respect, I think that its Havock that is a marked man, and the mark reads "flippers bitch".

Damn funny fan fic, almost soiled myself reading it, keep it coming Rhino, and you too Havock.

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Havock ducks in to say...

Posted January 15, 2011
Rhino,
Apology accepted. I hate that term to be honest; there is something about its formality that grates on me and I will elaborate further because I have too. It’s a powerful set of words, too often utilised lightly, but when done so with a clear intent, very very......... strong. That’s not even clarifying it like I want to. But I understand and accept it with the sincerity its intended.

But I have unfinished business.

Firstly, calling you a CNT, was totally out of line, it’s not you as far as I am concerned, certainly It should not have been done here on CBG either. So on that Rhino, you have my apology, and once again, for doing it here JB.

It’s also folly laden to comment at 0100 hours, but I guess that’s how wound up I was about it at the time, it actually would not let me sleep. It’s a rare day that something like this provokes such a reaction, some will say its normal, but no, it’s totally different and I will tell you why, I will also tell you why, I am doing so here, that’s also part of the issue.

I’m not even sure where to start to be honest, so I’ll just kick off and cover what I want too.

Posting when pissed off, leads one to right where I am now, but its deeper than that and it’s taken me a good four hours or more having gotten home from cricket, to think this through and come up with some satisfactory answers for myself.

And the big one is ego, I don’t let it get punctured very often, I also do not think its overly large, but your post slammed home and I reacted, late at night and without due consideration of the ramifications of replying in the manner in which I did and doing so in such a public manner.

For that you have my apologies.

It’s also tied to the next one as well, because there was no harm intended, it was without malice your Fan Fic, I should have taken that into account. Maybe then I would also have sent you an e/mail, rather than going off in an open forum. Yes, I’m not the first, possibly not the last, but I do try to do things in the correct manner.

And I should have known better!.

Lastly and assuredly not least of all, it has not affected the friendship as far as I am concerned, by your note, you either. Its great here, rough at times, but hey! We are adults and mistakes do happen, I’ll just make sure I don’t make this kind again,... well I will certainly try, put it that way.

Rhino, all’s good.

Cheers

H ( Andrew P )

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ConspiracyCat asserts...

Posted January 15, 2011
If he is, Stevo, they've picked the right bloke for hotpants. Havock has a magnificent arse.

(Sorry, Havsy. But the truth about your arse must be told).

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Havock ducks in to say...

Posted January 15, 2011
lol..CAT!, Ive always considered my sexy arse! to be a defining feature..intelligence not withstanding of course!

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Rhino mutters...

Posted January 16, 2011
H,

It's all good. Just don't expect a man-kiss. I'll hug it out though and buy you several pints and a fat steak when we meet up in the flesh.

R

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Havock mumbles...

Posted January 16, 2011
lol..rodger that!

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Rhino mutters...

Posted January 16, 2011
OK all. You can come out from the bunkers and continue commenting.

We have reset to DEFCOM 4.

I need to know if I should try my hand at future stories.

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Havock ducks in to say...

Posted January 16, 2011
Was just having a chuckle at that, Kinda " Clash of the fkn TITANS" and the natives all fkd off!

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damian asserts...

Posted January 16, 2011
Seriously people - we need to get these guys a plane ticket and a room.

:/

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Havock would have you know...

Posted January 16, 2011
MATE!..DO!, you right them well, I...Might make a few...er..Suggestions, but that would be kinda me FOCUSED..lol, but fk yeah, dont stop!

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Brian swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 16, 2011
Its sort of icky.

Havock and Rhino being soulmates. Or twins seperated at birth . . . .like Danny Davito and Arnie.

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The Rhino reckons...

Posted January 16, 2011
Oh man. A Havock and Rhino team-up. Fuck ya!

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Brian puts forth...

Posted January 16, 2011
Buddy teams.

Abbott and Costello.
Laurel and Hardy.
Bonny and Clyde.


Batman and Robin.

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ConspiracyCat is gonna tell you...

Posted January 16, 2011
I was thinking more like Terrence Hill and Bud Spencer.

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Brian swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 16, 2011
CC

Oooh . . .now that's a deep memory.

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FKNHVK puts forth...

Posted January 16, 2011
's more like Tango and FKN Cash cept I'm FKN Stallone.

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Stewart Robertson swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted January 17, 2011
Well, at least there was no monkey rape in the story

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savo would have you know...

Posted January 17, 2011
"WARNING – Some NSFW language and situations."
"Some New South Fkn Wales language" ???

What are you - a closet Queenslander?

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NBlob puts forth...

Posted January 19, 2011
Nice One Rhino. P!ss Funny & well put together.

Yes you should do more Fan Fic.
Everyone should. Skilled or otherwise.
For me at least it's about opening up another little slice of the Birmoverse. Birmo is a creative & skilled Mothfkr to be sure, but there's no way his creativity can compete with the combined effort of the Global Burgers.

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Moko is gonna tell you...

Posted January 24, 2011
Great stuff.

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Respond to 'Rhino Fan fic.'

NaNoWriMo

Posted November 3, 2010 by John Birmingham
Ms. Jennicki has asked for a writing blog. Because it's national novel writing month. Any of you with twitter accounts would be familiar with the hash tag #nanowrimo because of the thousands of tweetenvolk who seem to have signed up to crank out 50,000 words this November.

I'm one of them. Although I have a professional reason for doing so. I really wanted to get something down on screen that I could use for my e-book experiment we discussed a couple of weeks ago. Consequently I'm cranking out 2000 words a day on The Demons of Buttecrack County. It's a story idea I've been playing around with for couple of months, after some film guys asked me to come up with a couple of plot lines for them.

I'm not sure whether I had ever discussed Demons at any length in public before, and I'm so happy with the concept and the way it's turning out that I am disinclined to do so now for fear of putting the story into the world before it's ready. But what the hell? Long story short, the path to the Under Realms opens up for some reason (fuck knows what, probably unscrupulous oil drillers, or scientists messing with powers beyond their comprehension). Some demons spill forth. Into a redneck town. Hilarity ensues. And bloodshed. Lots of hilarious bloodshed.

At the same time as I'm cranking on this, I'm also trying to work up some momentum on book 3. The advantage I have in all of this, is that I am paid to sit on my arse at the keyboard. Most people are not. The disadvantage is simply the sheer volume of work I have to get through.

So, how am I doing it? The Pomodoro technique. We have discussed this in the past, and I am still using it because it works, at least for me.

I'm not sure if anybody else has signed up for this November madness, but if you have time happy to run the occasional entry here checking on everybody's progress.

44 Responses to ‘NaNoWriMo’

Abigail puts forth...

Posted November 3, 2010
JB I sighend on for ti, on the spur of the moment on Nov , never having heard of it before. I'm loving it because it feels very like a group project and I like to feel involved with the masses more than operating alone, so it is spurring me on a lot. It also brings out one's competitive streak when you have people doing the same thing. Sort of a "write off".

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Abigail ducks in to say...

Posted November 3, 2010
whoops typos , and first line should read November *1st*.

I've written 1700 -ish -which is probably what you do in three mins, JB. Good luck with yours.
Am trying my hand at something set slightly in the future and "what if?"--hmm, not my usual thing but committed to seeing it through.

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Medway reckons...

Posted November 3, 2010
Well I've got the beginning of a chapter going off fairly well, in a scifi post apocalyptic story with ex-military mercenary squad running around and collecting particular objects across the naturally terraformed earth and devices to prevent something or other (still working that one out).

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Medway mutters...

Posted November 3, 2010
Oh and I'm only at a few hundred words so far.

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Medway has opinions thus...

Posted November 3, 2010
And to help myself out, I think I'm going to figure out through the work days where I want to steer the story and figure out what little plot twists I'll have in it.

Seems like a good use of 8 hours.

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Ms Pulp ducks in to say...

Posted November 3, 2010
I'm a little over NaNoWriMo this year. Last year I failed spectacularly. This year I've decided it just all feels very amateurish and haphazard. I'm not going to just plonk myself down and write a novel for the sake of it.

Someone like yourself JB, I can see how you'd get more out of it than the average punter but it's just not for me.

I don't like bullying myself into writing. If I'm having an ideas-drought, it's much easier to write letters to friends in far away places to get the juices flowing. (You start off writing about your life, and then soon realise how boring it is. Elaboration ensues, and voila - story seeds have been sown.)

Anyway, good luck with it all.

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Therbs has opinions thus...

Posted November 3, 2010
Is Buttecrack County part of the Red Dead Redemption: Undead Nightmare landscape?

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jennicki has opinions thus...

Posted November 3, 2010
Yay! Thank you!

I think I'm going to try the Pomodoro technique too. Turn everything off and just write for that period of time and see where that gets me.

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girlclumsy has opinions thus...

Posted November 3, 2010
I feel guilty every year because of this damn Nanowrimo business. I feel like I *should* be able to crank out 1700 words a day. Of course it's time though. I'm still working, still improvising, I've got theatre newsletters and 2011 brochures to plot out - so I'm writing, but it just can't be for a book right now.

Having said that, I've actually begun a short-blog writing project for November, called "Remember November". It's actually the opposite of Nanowrimo - I'm trying to actually discipline myself to write shorter, sharper blogs.

I'm also trying to will myself into entering the BITS festival, and do a basic draft version of a one-woman show. Hopefully it will be funny. So I guess I've got some writing to do there.

Anyway, sorry for blethering on. Just want to feel part of the cool gang. :)

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Paul Nicholas Boylan has opinions thus...

Posted November 3, 2010
"the path to the Under Realms opens up...Some demons spill forth. Into a redneck town. Hilarity ensues."

I cannot fucking wait to read it.

"Dayamm, Bubba, will ya' lookit all o them demons! Let's shoot at em."

"Hey, why not?"

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DrYobbo mutters...

Posted November 3, 2010
We scientists NEVER mess with powers beyond our comprehension, because nothing is. Sometimes we like to fuck shit up, though.

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girlclumsy swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted November 3, 2010
I forgot to say - JB, your short novel idea sounds great. Looking forward to it. :)

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Paul Nicholas Boylan is gonna tell you...

Posted November 3, 2010
"I forgot to say - JB, your short novel idea sounds great. Looking forward to it. :)"

Damn. You are so polite and nice. I'm not sure I've ever seen you use the word "fuck." Are you sure you are Australian? Because if you are not, that would be fucking AWESOME!

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girlclumsy ducks in to say...

Posted November 3, 2010
Hey Paul - yes, I was in fact born here. Although I have a mongrel background of Irish, Polish, English and even a bit of Indian thrown in there for good measure, so I'm hardly Crocodile Dundee. :)

I actually drop the f-bomb fairly regularly in conversation. But for some reason I tend to avoid it in writing, or use asterisks. Not sure why!

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NBlob ducks in to say...

Posted November 3, 2010
Would a breach report prepared for court count?
Stupid dumb black marketing arseclown.


Oh & on a tangerine, am re-re-reading AA and getting heaps more out of it. It's wierd, when I first got it I ripped through it and while I enjoyed the explodey goodness the "Story Continued" gripped me considerably less than the initial installment.

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NBlob reckons...

Posted November 3, 2010
& PNB, just to keep it real.
Fk.
Fkn Fk.
Fkitty Fkn Fk

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Therbs reckons...

Posted November 3, 2010
PB - She's an Aussie, true blue, fair dinkum and I've been told she incorporated writing "fuck" at least once into her "30 things to do before turning 30" project. I'm sure I saw it either in the "porn" venture or the "writing the word 'fuck'" episode.

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girlclumsy swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted November 3, 2010
Therbs - I made a very deliberate decision to avoid any naughty words during the porn venture!!! ;)

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Moko ducks in to say...

Posted November 3, 2010
HA, fucken scientist bastards fucking shit up. Fuck ya's. Can't say I'm surprised.

I've got four game reviews sitting waiting on the fricken rapture or something, so I've got NO chance.

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John Birmingham asserts...

Posted November 3, 2010
So, Lord Bob, distracted by the explodey stuff were you? Forgot to attend to the deeply sensitive consideration of the human condition that is the lietmotif of After America did you? Well then. Easily dealt with. NO explosions for you in book three. No explosions for ANYONE!!!!

DIALOGUE DRIVEN CHARACTER STUDY HERE WE COME!@@!!!!

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Therbs has opinions thus...

Posted November 3, 2010
Sensitive fucking writers eh? "Oh, look at my subtle depth of character development entwined within the multiple plot narrative" and "challenging the reader with profound existential questions" they say.
Nothing which can't be fixed with a fully laden B52 pilotted by Havock.

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Therbs would have you know...

Posted November 3, 2010
Sorry, forgot to add the epithet "Bongingham", 'cos that's like really fucking funny innit.

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Paul Nicholas Boylan swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted November 3, 2010
Okay, okay, okay, I got this GREAT idea. John, your story needs a character who is, let's say, sort of like a professor, maybe even of Greek/Irish ancestry, who explains what has happened:

Big JIm: Hey, Professor, you got any eye-dee-a where these things came from?

Prof: Could be anything, JIm. Could be a secret government experiment gone wrong. Could be an invasion from another universe.

Bubba: Ya mean like in the Star Trek episode where Spock had a beard?

Prof: Precisely, but not quite. Instead of a collapse of the field density between two universes caused by a transporter malfunction, what we got here is an inter -dye -mentional breach. Sort of a tear in the fabric of time and space.

Bluey: (running in with shotgun in hand) They got the liquor store surrounded!

Big Jim: Let's roll!

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Chaz swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted November 3, 2010
I'm there at the coal face with you JB. Ok not exactly at the coal face more like in the corporate head office far far away from where the actual resources are being relocated.

Anyway got only 700 odd words done on monday. Obviously nothing got done yesterday. Doubt I'll get my 1700 odd words done today as am feeling tired already.

My story? Zombie fic intially based in London

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Lobes puts forth...

Posted November 3, 2010
Chaz is the twiggy forest to your chilean miner. Good luck digging yourself out.

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Barnesm asserts...

Posted November 3, 2010
" No explosions for ANYONE!!!!
DIALOGUE DRIVEN CHARACTER STUDY"

Now that's the scariest thing I've read in a while

"cientists messing with powers beyond their comprehension" Yeah I'm with Dr Yobbo on this one, NOTHING is beyond our comprehension, but Fraking shit up will get you an ARC grant.

I too eagerly look forward to reading the Ballad of Reading Buttefrak.

Moko, no benefits of science for you for two weeks for that little outburst.

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NBlob puts forth...

Posted November 3, 2010
No explosions for ANYONE!!!!
DIALOGUE DRIVEN CHARACTER STUDY HERE WE COME!@@!!!!
That's scarier than halloween.
Scarier than my latest water bill.

Some people can't re-read a novel, some don't have time. I'm a habitual rereader. Probably born of prolonged budgetry embarassment. Just because I know where it's going I can still get more out of each reading.
All that justification & back pedalling aside, I think the "Holy crap, where is this going to go?" in WW really grabbed me by the short & curlies. EG The Israeli pre-emptive strike & The Aswan Dam as a target.
Where as AA was more of a (forgive me) conventional adventure story without any really shocking plot twists, except of course the drowning of some unfortunate surplus Mormons.
On this reading The Kipper felt more fleshed out & dynamic as in changing through experience. & Fred F'kn rocks.
Despite a really long & ugly day yesterday I still read way later than I should have to finish the Library fight. Which made today (another long & ugly one) just that little bit more suckful, but there you go.

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Moko puts forth...

Posted November 3, 2010
B. DAMMIT. Hope there's no advances in coffee till then...

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ConspiracyCat reckons...

Posted November 3, 2010
Sorry, JB. You aren't allowed to write Dialogue Driven Character Studies. The OTHER John Birmingham already dibsed them. (For five year olds, no less).

So get back to writing your explodey sequels, thank you very much. No hurry. Now will do.

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tqft is gonna tell you...

Posted November 3, 2010
If I had the energy to do a 1,000 words/day I would be writing documentation at work like I am being paid to do and job applications (so I don't have to write documentation).

But Monday Morning Marine Core Blues really does want to be written :-(

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Havock would have you know...

Posted November 3, 2010
I'm on it now. Took a bit to work out JUST what the fkn hell we would write about.


" The arseheaded, camel drining clowns thought their approach was unseen, little did the tool headed Taliban gits know, their Camels were slightly taller than themselves, obviously the other sentry and myself had already detected their foul stench as it seems from the odor they had dags, the Taliban, not the Camels.

I had thought about brassing them up, but realistically I needed the rest of the squad, unfortunately, our dish licking corporal was off munching some rug somewhere, our real CO had departed back home after her sister had gotten an abortion, which the rest of the guys in the section all voted yes for, little did we know she was pro life, resulting in a severe are kicking for all.

Still, I guess, it could have been worse, well, not quite as bad as the Lycra cladded camel jocky we had seen later in the day, banging posts into the ground at what seemed like random intervals, until of course somebody piped up and mentioned he might be making a land rights claim.




I reckon it might be a best seller

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Abigail asserts...

Posted November 4, 2010
Just a small thing but it might help separate your identity from that of the childrens' writer, JB.
His name is actually John Burningham.Yeah like we all notice but still..

And, I'll believe you develop characters along "p/arty lines" when I see it, lol

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Paul Nicholas Boylan asserts...

Posted November 4, 2010
I didn't notice at all. Wow. That IS different.

Makes me imagine a hippy-inspired and attended free love festival with a pork product theme that ends with a giant burning ham. The Burning Ham Festival. I would most definitely attend such an entitled festival - especially if attending brought with it the opportunity to procure otherwise illegal intoxicating substances.

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Moko would have you know...

Posted November 4, 2010
Mmmm Hammmm

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Paul Nicholas Boylan ducks in to say...

Posted November 4, 2010
Ham is good.

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NBlob reckons...

Posted November 5, 2010
As are "otherwise illegal intoxicating substances."
Well some of them.
Some of them are better than ham.
Yes, that's right, I said it Better Than Ham. Possibly even Batter than Bacon.

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Paul Nicholas Boylan mumbles...

Posted November 5, 2010
Spoken like a young man who knows nothing about the finer things in life. Or like an old man who has never had a really good ham sandwich. On rye. With a little mustard.

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NBlob mutters...

Posted November 6, 2010
You speak like a bitter porcinecentric old man who never supped at the devils teat.
Your top shelf chairman's bourbon, nasty Ouzo & water, malty Irish stouts & cheeky reds from Napa are all well & good but compared to the silibant joy found on the dark path of cosmetic neuropharmacology they are like field rations to haute cuisine.

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Paul Nicholas Boylan has opinions thus...

Posted November 7, 2010
I've imbibed cheeky Napa reds that caused symptoms similar to LSD flashbacks from the 1960's - and for $15 a bottle! - and acceptable side-effects. Top that, dot ("descendant of transportees).

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NBlob puts forth...

Posted November 7, 2010
similar shmimilar.

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Paul Nicholas Boylan mumbles...

Posted November 7, 2010
Can't argue with that. Nothing beats the real thing.

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Abigail mumbles...

Posted November 8, 2010
NowhereBob @ 10.10, wow, that's excellent. You should be a writer.

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NBlob puts forth...

Posted November 8, 2010
Thankyou miss Abigail.
However IF there were any justice to this world, I'd be a Bunny Test Pilot, Megabullionaire, or big time Greybeard hunter.

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Scott has opinions thus...

Posted November 8, 2010
Dude, fk you make it seem effortless. Everytime I read one of your posts/blogs/twitters etc I can't help but think you found your niche (just as the rest of us are searching for ours). Thanks and (hopefully without sounding like a burke) well fkn done - I reckon there's a shoite load of people out there that get a kick from your writing!!

I know this is a bit off topic but hey, felt the need to verbalise and somebody said you could do that on the internet.

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Respond to 'NaNoWriMo'

AoT pepsi challenge

Posted September 24, 2010 by John Birmingham
If you were looking at the three books in the Axis of Time series, and thinking "Hmm, they'd make a great movie," at this point I'd probably ask you 'why?'

What specifically would make them good for the big screen? What story elements, what characters, which narrative arcs would best suit a feature film, do you think? As opposed to, say, a miniseries.

And which ones wouldn't.

Don't ask why I'm asking.

I just am.

114 Responses to ‘AoT pepsi challenge’

Lobes reckons...

Posted September 24, 2010
For the same reasons they made a popular book(s).

Nazis, futuristic super weapons, compelling characters. Clever plot developments (though that would probably need to be changed somewhat).

Off the top of my head I'd say the narrative arcs to concentrate on would be Kolhammer, Slim Jim, HRH Harry and maybe Julia Duffy and Paul Brasch in supporting roles.

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Murphy reckons...

Posted September 24, 2010
I think it would be important to focus on Admiral Ritchie. He is the core of the narrative, without him, the rest really won't hold up well. Through him you could see the conflicts many of the other characters encounter, notably Colonel Jones.

Halabi and Willet are two others. Halabi provides the most striking contrast between values of the year 2021 and 1942.

Though I have provided background and advice for Julia Duffy, she has never been my favorite. That said, a civilian perspective from 2021 would be needed.

By Final Impact it seems the story lines were whittled down considerably from Weapons of Choice. Perhaps that would be a place to start.

I'll have to ponder it some. My brain is off in the other trilogy right now.

Respects,

Murph

On the Outer Marches

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Murphy would have you know...

Posted September 24, 2010
Umm, did I say Ritchie? I just read Lobes entry and it is Kolhammer.

Oops.

See what I mean about where my head is at?

Respects,

Murph

On the Outer Marches

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Moko reckons...

Posted September 24, 2010
Think you'd need snap shots from all of it.

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gtrof swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted September 24, 2010
The only way to do AoT justice would be as a Mini-series. I mean Imagine the Pacific and Band of Brothers, with the 82nd MEU blasting the hell out of Japanese positions and F-86s swatting Me-262s from the sky!

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Therbs mutters...

Posted September 24, 2010
Definitely Kolhammer, Halibi, Willet. Slim Jim, Duffy and Harry more as cameo scenes. What makes it good fillum fodder is the stranger in a strange land effect combined with the familiarity of real historical characters and events. Then there's the explodey stuff and seeing heaps of Nazis get their come uppance.

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DNABeast swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted September 24, 2010
I first heard about the novels when you appeared on 'Get This' and said "Prince Harry travels back through time and kicks Hilter's Arse". That's not a bad synopsis for an action film right there.

I would say to do it from the POV of Dan but then the last third of the film would be from INSIDE A FRIGGING BOX YOU MONSTER!! #stillhealing

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Shifty_McGee has opinions thus...

Posted September 24, 2010
I would be entirely satisfied with a film that just went up to the end of the first section of the first book. The future is cool like snakes.

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Chaz asserts...

Posted September 24, 2010
I'd said miniseries rather than movie as the transition itself is easily an hour of fun.

I'd push the quiet room story line heavily as it has contemporary resonances.

using a miniseries you could take bits from each thetre starting off with a faux newsreel report and then moving to colour as the scene develops

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Chaz asserts...

Posted September 24, 2010
Also Halibi story is a great thread when put in context of the Blitz and having the Trident sitting in the Wash acting as FAC & Goalkeeper

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Matthew K reckons...

Posted September 24, 2010
Seeing the Nazis and the Japs get their arses kicked by BIG guns wielded by all the sorts of people they hate - blacks, gays Jews! This alone is worth paying money for.

On top of that we get to see the "'Temps" get their heads twisted by the future shock; stuffy British admirals reduced to apoplexy by ethnic girl sailors speaking Strine, racist US marines confronted with a hard as coffin nails BLACK marine colonel. Excellent stuff and a real double whammy, it's the money back guarantee that maqkes it worth your while.

Characters are also fun; Kohlhammer, Jones and Halabi are what I would hope to see "in the flesh". The rest? Meh. Sorry, there were just too many of them for me to care about, might work better in a film/TV series. (But no way could a fictional Prince Harry make onto the screen. Change name maybe?)

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Timmo mumbles...

Posted September 24, 2010
I dunno about a film vs miniseries, but I think the cultural differences between the temps and the 21Cers provided some of the most interesting aspects of the book. I had never considered the idea of temporal xenophobia before. The scenes early on in Hawaii, once the dust had settled from the initial temporal event were interesting - particularly exploring it from the POV of "dinosaur" cops like 'Buster' Cherry, etc.

Of course, a drop-dead gorgeous, sexually confident/aggressive reporter like Julia Duffy is a dead cert to appeal to the teenage boy in all of us, too.

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NBlob puts forth...

Posted September 24, 2010
I think in pictures & the immediate post transition explody goodness strikes me as the #1 reason for Cinema.

+

The IJN Aleution Islands task force encountering the Indonesian tub.

+

HRH Prince Harry's Rocket Farm raid.

Fave Story Arcs were Brasch including & The Indons & Kohlhammer VS Slim Jim VS Hoover for influence over the post transition society.

The strategic battle command level of 'temp allies vs 'temp axis trying to best prioritise, produce & exploit up time tech - but I can't seee it translating to a stand alone 98 minute feature so well.

Please Please Please get strategic advice on scene allocation of CGI budget. These days State of The Art CGI production is prohibitively expensive (and oh so obscenely luscious), but 5 year old is cheap as chips and will serve beautifully for all but the Money Shots.

For instance you could blow big wads O cash period-ising LA, but it wouldn't need it - just some bog ordinary Harry Potter 1 vintage tech.

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lostatlunch puts forth...

Posted September 24, 2010
Jones & Kohlhammer, inseperable and in a Patton style role.

Harry, gives the audience a relevant touchstone

Julia, can be foxy

can Clumsy play Julia? the sassy gung-ho journalist.

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Naut is gonna tell you...

Posted September 24, 2010
I would have the first book as a movie and then the rest as an animated series. Think Clone Wars.

I don't like the idea of a miniseries as they rarely have the budget to do explody goodness properly. Cartoon explosions are cheap.

Why isn't explody in my spellchecker?

Also there are so many different potential threads and spin-offs that animation probably has the best chance of covering them.

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hornedog asserts...

Posted September 24, 2010
It could not be one movie, would have to be 3, and lets face it, with the right director and producer could be a absolute classic.

To Hanks would give his left nut to be involved i suspect.

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mrblenny would have you know...

Posted September 24, 2010
The scene that sticks with me is at the end of the first book when a beat up old wwii fighter saves the Clinton from a suicide bomb with a 500 pound iron bomb. The shock of the old timers and the guilt of the up timers at the type of war they had bought back with them made for a great, if somewhat depressing scene.

This could be done in a movie ormini series though but I would have to say movie is preference. You need a big budget to do it properly and even the pacific with its massive budget only had passable cgi for the naval shots. Maybe the defence industry would chip in with some real f 22's and what not as a pr advertising stunt.

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Moko mumbles...

Posted September 24, 2010
As long a metal storm still creates 'human sludge', I'll be happy.

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Tarl mumbles...

Posted September 24, 2010
I think a two-parter would do it.

Part One, the uptimers arrive and kick ass. Nazis and imperial japanese take a beating.

Part Two, the uptimers on leave, showing just how hard the collision in societal mores is.

The scene from the bar in Hawaii, immediately followed by the guy who tried to assault Julia. Both cases where downtimers found out just how different the uptimers were.

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Mark R. Whittington has opinions thus...

Posted September 24, 2010
Aside from the blood and thunder aspects with high tech weapons on the loose in the 1940s, the one thing I found arresting about the books that might elevate a screen adaptation above the usual action picture status would be the culture clash between the uptimers and the 1940s people. The Greatest Generation is well deserved of the title for putting Nazism and Japanese militarism in the grave, but many of them had attitudes toward race, gender, etc that are very disturbing indeed.

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Aaron asserts...

Posted September 24, 2010
From the point of view of Admiral Yamamoto would be cool (although not as marketable to americans which ultimately who you need to please for the film to a success). Yamamoto was my favourite because he understood the significance of what was coming with the 'Emergence'. Having his wise old accented english VO would give it a cool edge.

The alternative would be Wally Curtis (the young temp geek who first recognised what the missiles were). His 1940's wide eyed wonder would convey the significance of the events (but i have a nagging feeling his character died in the third)

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Aaron reckons...

Posted September 24, 2010
the other option is make it all about duffys 1940's sex and the city adventures.

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hornedog has opinions thus...

Posted September 24, 2010
But to the real question: who would play Price Harry????

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Chaz is gonna tell you...

Posted September 24, 2010
'But to the real question: who would play Prince Harry????'

not too many good looking red heads out there of the right age for the book, but there is one in perth.....!!

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Rhino mumbles...

Posted September 24, 2010
Don't think mini-series people ... think movie franchise.

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SirPhil would have you know...

Posted September 24, 2010
Are we talking one movie, or a trilogy?

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Spoonman would have you know...

Posted September 24, 2010
A more enlightening question would be, what is it about these books that would NOT make a killer blockbuster movie trilogy? ummmmm..... Even the references back to main character's past (our future) are totally believable and credible. But so many great books never see the big screen. Think Robert A Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land. Would be tragic for 'Weapons' to suffer similar fate.

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StevoWA-HK would have you know...

Posted September 24, 2010
I'm thinking the key Characters are the Uptimers and the ordinary people 'Temps Like Dan Black. We know loads about Eisenhower and Roosevelt. Same with Kennedy. they would be smaller roles to be sure. But like an Impressionist painting all the small strokes are important for the greater image.

Prince Harry is a must do lead role. Sam Worthington to fill those shoes? If a Brit can be cast as our Mad max, why can't an Aussie be cast as HRH

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Daniel swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted September 24, 2010
I reckon if it was a movie it would end up with them magically getting back to their original time or something equally saccharine.

A mini series would be pretty neat, plenty of different things to show for sure.

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Singo swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted September 24, 2010
Film schmilm. Tv is where it's at - where has the great work been done in the last decade? HBO, AMC and Showtime. Forget miniseries too - this is a full blown small screen epic. Tv is the novel to film's short story.

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StevoWA-HK ducks in to say...

Posted September 24, 2010
A Good miniseries could lead into an even better series A LA Battlestar Galactica...

Not too hard a bow to draw between the two. AoT and BSG both in the end deal witht he clash of civilisations and the right to survive. In the end its all about People. The real ending of the novels for me came with Brasch reunting with his Family and Willet finally letting herself release at the end in Sydney Harbor

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sparty swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted September 24, 2010
Mini series - the books are about culture and technology clash and the EVOLUTION of that culture and technology. Showing evolution takes time. Particulary audience time not actual film time (needs to sink in).

Such as running out of modern ammo..

Uprating ww2 tech

Showing how the knowledge of the time line becomes less useful as things progress.

Also as a multiple POV books I think it needs multiple writers - (after a draft treatment screen play obviously by Birmo).

And it needs time to develop breakout characters (teh Dan Blacks of this world- but teh break out chracters might not be teh same as the ones in the books.

Finally its a geeky, crazy and at first bloody stupid premise which would probobly get slaughtered at the box office- but put it on TV and it might get time to develop teh fan base it deserves.

Finally so many of the charcters deserve to be story arced-can you imagine weeks of Harry and Skorzeny talking about what if they met etc and finally at a season finale they do!

Sadly I thik military set pieces will and should be decided by plot and budget although my personal favourite is Trident v Tirpitz and we HAVE to SEE Harry duel SKorzeny.

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sparty swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted September 24, 2010
is this purely hypothetical or dare we hope?

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sparty mutters...

Posted September 24, 2010
sorry just saw the dont ask why.

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sparty reckons...

Posted September 24, 2010
while on page to screen - interesting stuff on why Startrek insurrection turned out so bad

http://tiny.cc/sz71n

Whole doc here:

http://tiny.cc/d8toe

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Amerigo Vespucci swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted September 24, 2010
I don't think it'd translate well to the big screen. Too much ground to cover without it being slashed to pieces. You could do a pretty good adaptation, though -- the big battle scenes of modern weaponry against the great battleships would play well.

Focus in on either the British or Americans only to reduce the plotlines to a manageable extent, and the same with the theatres of war. Pacific or Atlantic only, to condense things.

You'd want to play up the tension about the Axis using their modern weapons to the fullest extent and push the social conflict ideas to the back burner in order to make it fit the blockbuster mold, which it does best, I think. You could fit it all in a nice 160-minute movie, but it wouldn't have the scope of the series.

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havock has opinions thus...

Posted September 24, 2010
oh ffsakes.

Its Julia Duffy.

Firstly, take a look at how well TOMB RAIDER DID, now tell me what has come out since then and with females and what are the similarities.

Duffy moves through almost every major series of scenes in the book, shes female so thats gunna appeal to the men and will also appeal to the women. She fights, shes a reporter, shes with all the MAJOR CHARACTERS, shes slightly fkn nutty, prone to jumpin ya bones..kinda I really do not see a better character in the book, good, bad, dark, sexy, witty, shooter, greens up and so forth. She kicks the arse of ALL the other characters by being all through out the book. Kholhammer on the other hand..is AMERICAN and Pacific based!....not a big enough spread.

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chrisd reckons...

Posted September 24, 2010
I'd think AoT would make a great miniseries. I think it's evermore likely someone trying to make a single movie from one book would end up with another mess like Battlefield Earth was. Great Book, one of worst movies of all time. Bad because it didn't capture the essence of the book at all. My vote 6 part mini series for each book. Can I be an extra!

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StevoWA-HK reckons...

Posted September 24, 2010
Sparty,.. don't be all a crestfallen by the possible cost of set piece battles. The stuff they can do on CG these days is crazy. Look at BSG for battles. The RAZOR DVD movie batle sequences, esp the opening Pearl Harbor Like assault on the Picon shipyard. "Sanctuary" is pretty much all CG. Yet its regular series TV. Expensive to be sure but not anywhere near the cost of shooting TV Old school on 35mm. RED cameras and the new HD digital jobs from ARRI and Panasonic are game changers and can make a high end Aot TV series or film a reality

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Harry the Dog reckons...

Posted September 24, 2010
Hey JB

Are you suggesting that there may be a screenplay in the offing?

Da Dog =;-)

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sparty asserts...

Posted September 24, 2010
StevoWA-HK - You're righ but BSG is in space so we suspension of disbelief is easier - aka babaylon 5 (although great cgi for its time)but bridge scenes need to be on real windswept decks - a cgi raptor strike on a v2 site CGI fine- but Kohlhammer on a bridge shouting "take them out of the sky" or Julia waving a propellor driven C47 transport off.. needs to be real(ish).

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sparty has opinions thus...

Posted September 24, 2010
need to be series- so by season 7 and they have run out of ideas the studio can dust of a few mini burger stories;-)

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Brian puts forth...

Posted September 24, 2010
Movie Vs Miniseries.

Pro's and Con's for both. Movies have generated miniseries and vice versa.

I'm thinking Star Gate type action. There was a movie then a series . . .and the series went off just about everywhere.

I'd be talking to the Canadians. They seem to have a good handle on this stuff.

Hmm . . . how about Telemovie . . .like 'V'? Sci-Fi channel likes to bankroll a few speculative projects.

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AgingGamer mumbles...

Posted September 24, 2010
I reckon neither film nor tv series; they'd make kick arse video games. Think of the scene in the very beginning of the 1st book where the two ships have melded together. It reads like a first person shooter where you have go navigate your way out of the chaos.

Then you could have vehicle and ship gameplay, missions as a war correspondent, & jungle warfare.

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Luke swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted September 24, 2010
It needs to be made. I'm not fussed who makes it or in what format (series/movie trilogy) but IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN. Don't leave too much out. Some of the nastier stuff around Bundaberg needs to be seen, as do the epic shots of the new d-day landings. The production values of LOTR would be nice. I've got a list of all the characters with possible casting from a while ago. I should look into that again. Screw getting an actor to play Prince Harry, get him to play himself.

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Matthew K has opinions thus...

Posted September 24, 2010
Various people have mentioned Brasch. Good point actually as without good guys Germans and Japs the whole thing would look like a xenophobic "we hate Germans" hate fest, (which Brits are too prone to anyway).

It could also underline the serious point of how massively the culture of those countries has changed since the dark days. Yeah right, fat chance of that.

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sparty is gonna tell you...

Posted September 24, 2010
Yep Matt K is right- more conflicted axis characters and also need for a bit of Anti uptimer conspiracy (led by the nasty Brit sea lord or something).

get Victoria Beckham for Trident CIC computer - that would get headlines!

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Murphy has opinions thus...

Posted September 25, 2010
The revised D-Day. You've got to have that.

Helicopters storming Calais. Priceless.

Respects,

Murph

On the Outer Marches

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Paul Nicholas Boylan puts forth...

Posted September 25, 2010
It cannot be made into a movie any easier than Lord of the Rings could be fitted into one film.

You need to make Weapons of Choice into a film, and even that can't be competently depicted in one film.

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John has opinions thus...

Posted September 25, 2010
It needs to be as long as it needs to be. I've read the series three times now, the last two back to back, and it seemed as fresh and rich each time.

It would make a great series of movies, as long as there was *plenty* of no-holds violence, and some sex :-)

I would hate for the Soviet bits to be left out - the Stalin parties would have to be in there.

I hope it is filmed, and with someone good in the chair,,,,,

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Ausgaz would have you know...

Posted September 25, 2010
If it only comes out as 1 movie it will need to cover the emergence only briefly otherwise it will be compared with the 1980 film Final Countdown.

More than 1 movie required I think.

Just my 2 cents worth.

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OzarkOrc mutters...

Posted September 25, 2010
Becasue it's still OK to wack Japs & Nazis in Color and slow motion action.

Too bad theywouldn't let me incorporate Wehrmach Licenceing Inc. Just think- every time you say Tiger tank, CHING! the cash register rings.

Nuff said.

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Lobes would have you know...

Posted September 25, 2010
Good point Ausgaz. Its going to be compared with the Final Countdown anyway. It needs to exceed it.

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WarDog is gonna tell you...

Posted September 25, 2010
For me the compelling elements are

1) how the clash between 2 cultures separated by 8 decades is in a lot of ways greater than the classh between contemporary cultural extremes.

2) how 8 decades of tech progression is tantamount to magic from a 1940s POV.

3) What's the best use of 8 decades of hindsight/foreknowledge.

To lose these elments would be doing the books a great disservice. Scenes that come to mind:

- the force field like effect around the 2020 ships during the battle just after the jump.

- the co-ordinated battle info, especially around the Trident in the Channel and the D-Day invasion.

- the 2020 ground troops in comparison to their 1940 conterparts in Aus. Tech and behaviour.

- The creation of the Zone and its impact on the community.

- The immediate pogroms, especially in Germany and Russia with the aid of historical lists of spies, underground figures etc.

I would love to see this on film. Especially that force field like effect around the ships. Showing how simple ideas pushed down a technical path can really appear magical. That and the clash of cultures and the hope that done over it could be better.

Remember, from the perspective of the story we still have 10 more years of foreknowledge that can be acted upon. And while the characters are fictional, all of the problems they dealt with are real and the technology is extremely likely. A good movie would *show* the gulf between 1940/2020 but might offer the chance to make use of what we can of those last 10 years.

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Nick reckons...

Posted September 25, 2010
There's something for everyone. Sci-fi action in the form of weps that are just a pinch beyond what's here. Wry humor. Comical collisions of culture and cameo opportunities. Good cross-section of intriguing characters. Racial tension of the sort to make both Yanks and Brits squirm uncomfortably. I just don't see how it could miss. All we need is a couple of space lizards and you'd top Avatar.

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TC Forest asserts...

Posted September 25, 2010
Now all we need are actors...

Cate Blanchett as Jane Willet,

Julia Sawalha as Karen Halabi,

Lonesome Jones played by Christopher Judge and

Poh Ling Yeow as Rachel Nguyen.

Who else?

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Lobes puts forth...

Posted September 25, 2010
How would you deal with the redundant aspects of the storyline? eg the Hilary Clinton gets renamed USS Barack Obama, more focus on electronic warfare and psyops, metal storm replaced by beam/wave weapons.

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TJX ducks in to say...

Posted September 25, 2010
USS Barack Obama?? C'mon! Are you F*ing serious?? The man has yet to PROVE ANYTHING. It's bad enough that this guy gets the Noble Peace Prize before even lifting a finger in being POTUS.

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TJX reckons...

Posted September 25, 2010
Back on topic, if AoT has to be adapted to film, then it needs to be three or more movies to get the story right and every element covered. Someone suggested the people that did Stargate to adapt it to a T.V. show, BAD IDEA! I don't want to see Basic Cable TV budget on this saga... EVER.

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Lobes mumbles...

Posted September 25, 2010
Well why would they name a carrier after hilary clinton when she hasnt even being president you fucking retard?

Let go of your partisan bullshit for one second and try and think of what makes sense for the plot of the story you fucking conservitard

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Sparty would have you know...

Posted September 25, 2010
I think it was reading that she'll have an aircraft carrier named after her gave her the courage to say that if Iran did anything to Isreal she would "obliterate them".

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Adrien Hopkins is gonna tell you...

Posted September 25, 2010
Anything short of a series of movies would not do the story justice, I'm also sure that a couple the characters name sakes would be available for cameos

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Murphy mutters...

Posted September 25, 2010
It is entirely possible that Clinton could become president. I can't see Biden being a viable candidate in any timeline. He has too much foot in mouthitis and way too far to the left.

Aside from the fact that he is a fucking idiot. That motherfucker came to the campus where I teach a few days before election day and PROMISED my girlfriend that he'd get her boys home from the sandbox.

Umm, where are they at now? In the sandbox.

Prick. I hope he chokes on his foot.

My vitriol aside, Hillary could easily run if Barrack is defeated in 2012. There is the 2016 election to consider.

Further, we have named ships after more than just presidents. The storyline could be redacted a bit to compensate.

Finally, there are a number of little things, bits, details about Weapons of Choice that would have to be fixed. They aren't important to the story per se (which is why I liked the novel so much when I first read it) but the details would need to be fixed.

Oh, there is the USS John C. Stennis, btw.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_John_C._Stennis_(CVN-74)

Just sayin'.

Respects,

Murph

On the Outer Marches

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NukemHill would have you know...

Posted September 26, 2010
Explosions. Lots and lots of explosions.

'Nuff said. I'm assuming you'd get Michael Bay to direct it. ;-)

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NukemHill reckons...

Posted September 26, 2010
Well why would they name a carrier after hilary clinton when she hasnt even being president you fucking retard?

Let go of your partisan bullshit for one second and try and think of what makes sense for the plot of the story you fucking conservitard

Nice.

The whole point of the naming of the Hillary Clinton was that she was so tough on the terrorists. It was in homage to her supposed presidency. Why in fuck's name would you simply replace her name with President Obama's? What has he done that would possibly lead you to believe that he qualifies to have a carrier named after him?

If you're going to be a partisan hack, at least be intelligent about it.

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Brad G mumbles...

Posted September 26, 2010
Mini-series vs. feature-length movie? A movie would do better justice re the FX, but there are too many intersecting and divergent story arcs for a movie or movies to properly cover. There would have to be a lot of characters and storylines axed, such as Slim Jim. A colorful and entertaining character, but not really germane to the overall plot. The culture clashes were better served by characters such as Halabi and Duffy/Black. Unfortunately, a mini-series would have to tone down some of the earthier dialogue, unless it was done by HBO or A&E.

As for carrier names: Hillary could still be elected president before the timeline of AoT, and not all carriers are named after presidents. Two current and active Nimitz-class carriers were named after a congressmen, the Vinson, and a senator, the Stennis, so it is within the realm of possibility that they could still name a carrier after Hillary, whether or not she's ever elected.

One interesting note I saw on the Wiki page: The current schedule for Ford-class carriers has the next ship (after the GR Ford is to be commissioned in 2015) to be commissioned in 2019, and, according to Wiki, a petition has been set up to have it named Enterprise, after the current Enterprise is retired in 2013.

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Brad G would have you know...

Posted September 26, 2010
One other note: The internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII. JB only mentioned in passing the possibility of interring the crew of the Siranui, but didn't raise the issue anywhere else. The first two camps were established in March and May of 1942, at Manzanar, and Tule Lake, respectively, both prior to the Transition. Both camps would have been in the Zone's backyard (California), and it would have been an issue that Kolhammer would have raised, especially with the treatment the crew of the Siranui received. Maybe this was something discussed in an earlier blog I missed, but I don't see how it could be left out of any potential mini-series/movie.

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El Coqui would have you know...

Posted September 26, 2010
Does it have to be with live action?

Clone wars and CGI The Roughneck Chronicles would be a good start in what technology is available for our purpose. Maybe Involve Japan anime producers. Did anyone here had seen Zipang?

The story is about a 21st century Japanese Aegis Arleigh Burke type destroyer that ends up in 1942. Sounds familiar?

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TJX mumbles...

Posted September 26, 2010
Haha, I love how I'm suddenlly a hard line "conservitard" just for saying something bad about the "Dear Leader". All I'm saying is that it's much more believable and still is for Hilary Clinton to be president, and the fact that she's actually ACCOMPLISHED things in here political life makes it more appropriate that a warship be named after her than Pres. Barrack Obama Peace Be Upon Him. :D

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TJX would have you know...

Posted September 26, 2010
Also, i would look forward to a series of video games based on this. If the storytelling is done MW2 style it might be pretty awesome. Would also make a good RTS or even tabletop miniatures game IMO.

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Brian ducks in to say...

Posted September 26, 2010
Clinton . .Sminton . . minor thingie. A bit of market research and that could be a plus or a minus. Its tricky . . .Cons. could love it just for giggles. Dems could hate it because it maligns one of their annointed.

Simple really . . .ITS AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE! Hell . .A coupla alternate universes . . .things are different. Dont get it? Don't watch it.

JB has a lot of shots at a lot of things in AOT. Controversy to spare.

Like . .do we really want a film with J. Edgar Hoover in drag? I'm for it. Be a lot of people who'll want to sue, though.

SO long as there are no main characters called Havock and Rhino I can go with the concept.

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Scott mutters...

Posted September 26, 2010
My impression from the books was that the war on terror got a lot nastier than what we are seeing now. Considering this Clinton could still end up as president. From the wiki article on the US Cabenit the line of succession goes Vice President, Speaker of the House, President Pro Tempore of the Senate then Sec State. For this reason the cabinet doesn't all meet, a designated survivor is always kept in an undisclosed location.

So, Jihad nutters take out the us government leaving Clinton as the survivor and as JB states in the books becomes the most uncompromising President on the war on terror. Thus leading to such events as the invasion of Seria shown by Jones. Seriously, it would take a major event before any US president invaded another Middle Eastern country after Iraq.

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unpossible is gonna tell you...

Posted September 26, 2010
Mate, as a long time fan, I reckon it would be better through the eyes of someone brand new, with all the established characters in supporting/cameo roles. Gotz to keep pushing the envelope.

Like Bukowski - the minor role 21c guy who Jones bumps into during the 1st scene and makes a big role during the luzon / changi raid. 'he got shot up pretty bad' is all you learn about his last scene.

Would weave in quite nicely with the books in a GTA-Liberty City kinda way.

-M

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El Coqui reckons...

Posted September 27, 2010
Scott:

I hate to admitted it but as O policies seem to be pushing for another 9/11 incident. Your scenario is actually believable.

Irony, according to Woodward latest book, he thinks that we can "absorb" another such disaster.

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Murphy has opinions thus...

Posted September 27, 2010
Jose, don't even get me started on that Woodward book. I read the Washington Post preview of it.

The depiction of the policy debates concerning the Enemy and Afghanistan were, well, chilling.

We can absorb another attack. I thought the guy actually had a few brain cells to rub together until I read that bit.

Now I'm convinced he is a fucking idiot, just like the last Democrat we had.

Respects,

Murph

On the Outer Marches

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Abe ducks in to say...

Posted September 27, 2010
I'd like to see the explodey stuff on the big screen, like HMAS Havoc's raid on the Japanese harbour, The ME262s vs Jane Willetts, the mass Ohka raid...

But I guess you couldn't just have 2 hours of explodey goodness, now, could you?!

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Lobes has opinions thus...

Posted September 27, 2010
Is anyone seriously suggesting the USA could not absorb another 9/11?

Of course they could. Would one more 9/11 mean that America would give up and let the Fundamentalist muslims take over and institute sharia law? I dont think so.

The reality is the USA has depths of wealth, industrial base and self sufficiency that even a dozen 9/11s would not scratch.

Granted their population is a bit panicky and prone to widespread ignorance with the political class a reflection of that but industry and the military would never let such a thing occur.

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Aaron mumbles...

Posted September 27, 2010
there's no reason why you cant update things as time progesses. Douglas Adams believed in updating his stories so the jokes stayed relevant. I like accuracy and attention to detail but we should all keep in mind its a SCI FI ADVENTURE IN SET AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE!!! Obama should be mentioned alone for the effect it would have on hitler.

A movie then TV series like stargate or Battlestar would suit it well and allow all the different POV's to breathe. And PLEASE don't cut out Slim Jim, if anything he is a contender for narrator - he was one of the few to understand and adapt to the events better than most. That southern hick drawl would be fantastc narrating say...operation sea dragon.

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Scott mutters...

Posted September 27, 2010
Yes, America could absorb dozens of 9 11s, but at what point will Americans say to hel with it and drop nation building and exporting democracy and take off the gloves? In this Birmoverse America and Australia had a system of sanctions 1 through 5 for dealing with terrorists and folks who broke the rules and norms of war, a system which BO would never sign in to law. The tranzies at the UN would not aprove. So, for internal consistency we have to show the viewer how we get from where we are now to the dark place of 2021.

Am going to read the Woodward

book but I'm not surprised, hard to be disappointed by a man who was always a tranzie. Clinton lost it I believe when she made the Iran comment, she should have left it until she had the nomination and was facing off Mclame.

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pitpat swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted September 27, 2010
Although I like a good explosion as much as the next bloke I reckon the closing scene should be of Elvis with Julia Duffy and slim Jim(?). Even better would be if they could be leaving a building ( say after signing a huge recording contract)and instead of "The End" it could then be " Elvis has left the building" roll credits.

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Murphy puts forth...

Posted September 27, 2010
Lobes, the point is that we shouldn't have to, nor should we allow it to happen. That is why the Democrats have trouble connecting with a sizeable chunk of the country.

Could Pakistan, where many of these bastards hide, absorb twenty to thirty nukes?

I think we should cut a deal with the Indians and crush that country like a fucking zit.

A few more 9-11s and I guarantee you that the remarkable level of restraint we have shown the enemy will evaporate.

Respects,

Murph

On the Outer Marches

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Lobes asserts...

Posted September 27, 2010
Murph I think its quite a stretch for you to claim Obama is suggesting its acceptable and he is willing to allow it to happen.

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Murphy mutters...

Posted September 27, 2010
Read the sentence, Lobes. Does it say that? No. That Obama even said something to the effect of absorb tells me a great deal about where his priorities lie.

Which is anywhere but security issues. And I think given his laissez faire fuck it attitude about it, we're probably going to get something like 9-11 again.

Not that I should really give a shit. The Enemy probably has the same impression of Flyover Country that most Democrats do. If there is another attack, it probably won't happy where I am so why should I care?

Respects,

Murph

On the Outer Marches

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Lobes swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted September 27, 2010
Murph what did you mean when you wrote:

"We can absorb another attack. I thought the guy actually had a few brain cells to rub together until I read that bit."

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stephenwho would have you know...

Posted September 27, 2010
OK, to get the conversation back out of the current politics thread - yes, please.

Simple - movie, mini series, anime - whatever - just make it and I'll go. Actually I think it would work best in Anime, but I think but directed by Shinji Aramaki or Katsuhiro Otomo not Hayao Miyazaki. It needs aggression, not style.

The thing that did bug me about the books some of the time was the yank skewed "voice" but then I'm an old anti war protester, so perhaps I'm the biased on here. Or perhaps you were writing for the US market?

Having said that I'll throw all credibility to the wind and say the alt/tech would look good on screen.

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Guy mumbles...

Posted September 27, 2010
Most time travel stories use the humour/strangeness of people from one time. relating to the technology, morality and customs of another The AOT trilogy did that very well indeed, with early 21st century femisnism and gay-friendly politics crashing up against 1940s homophobia and sexism. That element above all is the one that would be best used in a movie.

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mckinneytexas puts forth...

Posted September 28, 2010
Rather than name the carrier after Hillary or Barak and risk alienating part of your market, I'd pick someone like Al Gore who would be an awesome inside joke. Maybe John Edwards, also a great inside joke, although not as well known. If you want to stay neutral politically, name it after FDR and have Pres. Roosevelt have to deal with that.

Otherwise, Lobes has it right, pretty much. Has to be a series, mostly computer graphic stuff otherwise it's cost prohibitive. The temps' social values make a good comparison to the racism we were fighting and the uptimers make the right foil for both. HRH and Otto duking it out would be fun. Do Burgers get tickets for the grand premiere?

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Murphy swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted September 28, 2010
Lobes, I meant he is an idiot. He is an idiot because I think Berry means actually what he says and that he doesn't believe it to be a top priority.

That said, this probably isn't the thread for this and I am trying to cut back on these sorts of slugfests. Conceding the field on this score.

McKinney has it right, Algore would be a great joke.

Are we going to be expected to portray our tuckerized roles? If so I'll need to get back into shape. :)

Respects,

Murph

On the Outer Marches

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Wayne swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted September 28, 2010
Steering this back to the topic at hand....the AoT series would make excellent televised entertainment because it shows how far we've come and it drives home the reality that the past is a different place and they do strange things there. Think about it. The Marines in 1942 were 100% white. The major US general in AoT was black, pure devilish genius. But, the books could not be done justice by film. It would need a miniseries. Give each book a five to six hour spread so you can truly push the envelope. I mean, how can you cut out the little scenes, like Slim Jim going to meet Elvis or discovering Marilyn Monroe? How do you cut QEII talking with her adult grandson? There are so many little moments that need to remain.

As for the Clinton battle group, it is fairly simple. Rename it the USS George W. Bush.

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mckinneytexas asserts...

Posted September 28, 2010
Not to hijack a good thread, and I'm no fan of our president but Obama's comments re: absorbing another terrorist attack are being taken out of context. Sure, in politics, that's fair game, but it is an objectively true statement. If we can't absorb another attack, we have real problems.

Wayne, I am warming up to the notion of then President Roosevelt having to deal with an aircraft carrier from the future named after him. It's clever, if I do say so myself, funny and noncontroversial. JB needs to sell shit, not stir it up.

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Guy mutters...

Posted September 28, 2010
Wayne is quite right about the AOT books needing a miniseries - or rather a miniseries for each of the three novels. Only then could the main themes be properly explored. A movie would be too short to deal with most of the good stuff.

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sparty would have you know...

Posted September 28, 2010
the point of the Clinton is to show just how much the world has gone to hell between now (well 2003 I guess) and 2021. Calling it Bush, Obama etc doesnt do that.

Personally if I was Kohlhammer and my ship travelled through time I'd pertition the President to get it renamed Enterprise.......

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sibeen would have you know...

Posted September 28, 2010
I'd love to see Vivian Richards StClaire as a major character. A large sergeant of West Indian descent sticking up to the major toffs in the British Army, all with the tacit approval of a certain prince.

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zeniph has opinions thus...

Posted September 29, 2010
I agree with all the has to be a mini-series/anim sentiment but unfortunately I think JB is specifically asking what bits would make a good movie to the exclusion of small screen options.

one of my favorite scenes for a movie sequence would be Brasch’s extraction from Paris by Prince Harry (you could make a whole action movie only using the PH scenes)

A stripped down storyline for a Hollywood blockbuster could be:

- The transition

- Initial concern that Axis of Time has been knocked out of whack and maybe we wont win WW2

- A bit of work on the social differences and the effect of injecting 21C into 20C culture

- Some focus on future weaponry taking out Nazis

- Some focus on hybrid weaponry taking out Nazis

- Cross to Germany / USSR alliance and the ominous potential

- Quick references to Japanese invasion of Aus, Japanese invasion of Hawaii, re-taking of Singapore, re-taking of Philippines

- Cross to D Day (Saving Private Ryan but with the Trident screaming past in the background)

- Build drama with the Russians nuking Poland and the nuclear facility in Kamchatka being developed.

- Finish with Yamamoto sending the kamikazes into Kamchatka and the nukes over Berlin

All sounds a bit boring laid out like that but Hollywood movies need a very simple story framework at the core to hang all the action and ideas off.

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archy mutters...

Posted September 29, 2010
per mckinneytexas, 28 Sept: *** I am warming up to the notion of then President Roosevelt having to deal with an aircraft carrier from the future named after him. It’s clever, if I do say so myself, funny and noncontroversial. ***

Already done, in the film *The Final Countdown* when a U.S. Senator of the 1941 timeframe is rescued by aircraft from [and then taken aboard] The USS Nimitz on 07 December 1941.

Splash the Zekes! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gChU-mGeBaM

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archy ducks in to say...

Posted September 29, 2010
per Lobes, 27 September: ***Is anyone seriously suggesting the USA could not absorb another 9/11? ***

Well, we could probably handle it okay if Washington, DC was nuked.

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K.Rabbit asserts...

Posted September 29, 2010
I am leaning more towards a mini series. With a movie there is simply not enough time and money to do all the battle scenes properly and develop the cultural tensions between the Temps and the moderns. But whatever happens whether in the theatre or HBO I will have my eyeballs glued. Tom Hanks to play Kolhammer and Ving Rhames for Colonel Jones

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Aaron puts forth...

Posted September 29, 2010
from the first book, the 'revised' battle of midway and the melded ships battle would be must includes for explodey goodness SFX budget priority.

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Lobes mutters...

Posted September 29, 2010
Like Zeniph says a mini series doesnt seem to be on the table here.

Everyone put your movie screenwriting hats on.

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Boscolamb is gonna tell you...

Posted September 29, 2010
For God's sake, please don't use SyFy channel-quality CGI! That would plain ruin it.

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Therbs swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted September 29, 2010
Anime, animation, no thanks. Its gotta be real, its better than a cartoon.

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sparty asserts...

Posted September 29, 2010
Surly if a studio took it on they would see it as a franchise? (ie multiple films )

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Robert swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted September 30, 2010
The first time they made this movie, they chickened out and sent everyone back through time, so don't do that.

I think the stronger elements are the culture clash, especially women's rights, management methods, jurisdiction, loyalty, instant communications. Watching the moderns suffer and adapt to the old infrastructure would play well. Not so much for the gee-whiz aspects of the new tech.

The new tech vs old tech battles will play well on screen, especially if you can capture scenes like that hillside battle.

And the skulduggery of people stealing or coercing to their own advantage would play fine on screen. In fact, that could be a key element, particularly as non-US governments snap up the new tech.

The anti-Muslim aspect of your story could be outdated by the time the flick is filmed--by then we'll be near a shooting war with China. At least over here real folks are fatigued by the anti-Muslim rhetoric to the point where it is only espoused by clownish politicians.

I think you should let someone rewrite all the relationships, though. Leave that to the Hollywood pros.

Generally, though, AoT could be a real blockbuster of a film worldwide, and I would like to see you honored in this fashion.

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Boscolamb is gonna tell you...

Posted September 30, 2010
Please keep Peter Jackson and MGM studios from being involved (sigh)...

Their involvement would surely doom any big feature presentation of AoT.

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Murphy swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted September 30, 2010
Everyone likes to hoist China up as the big Boogeyman. I sometimes think it is nostalgia for a Cold War world with a balance between two super powers that brings that to the surface.

It isn't going to happen. China and the U.S. are joined at the hip financially. For one to go after the other would be akin to shooting themselves in the head. Now granted, countries have done bone headed things in the past and there is always the unpredictable to factor in.

But if you are merely extrapolating on current knowledge to forecast the future, I'd say a war with China is about as likely as a French Army invading the moon. :)

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Aaron has opinions thus...

Posted September 30, 2010
"French Army invading the moon"

Finally, a battle they can't lose...

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Scott puts forth...

Posted September 30, 2010
Aaron, I don't know they would find some way.

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NBlob has opinions thus...

Posted September 30, 2010
*With thick French accent*

"Merde, what do you mean there is no air?"

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NBlob puts forth...

Posted September 30, 2010
With all the noise about Delhi & the Commonwealth Games in the MSM, I was contemplating PRC & The New & marginally Improved Republic of India teaming up as a future power bloc.

That'd fk 'em.

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Murphy would have you know...

Posted October 1, 2010
NBob, not happening. They hate each others guts.

Respects,

Murph

On the Outer Marches

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NBlob reckons...

Posted October 1, 2010
I hear you Murph, but strange sh!t happens.

Would anyone in the early 1920's or late 30's have predicted Germany & France teaming up in an EU like structure? The idea of Poland & Russia co-operating on anything other than kicking the Balkans would have sounded like Science Fiction until after WWII, one could argue that Joe average in Poland didn't get much of a vote, but the Warsaw Pact did happen.

My mind was just free-spooling and came up with an idea by which a large % of the worlds population & means of production batting for the same side.

It's then a matter of wondering how it comes about; Islamic seperatists in Western China (Turkmen & Ouigas) funded & schooled up in Jihad by the usual suspects, Global Jihad moves north out of Pakistan & into China. In the face of this 'The Enemy of my Enemy' might just overcome any residual discomfort over the Tibettans.

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K.Rabbit mutters...

Posted October 2, 2010
If the miniseries option is out then it has to be a trilogy. The first movie should definitely have the transition, the fused ships and the battle between Temps and moderns. The adjustment he moderns have to make should be focused on. I really hope it gets made

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NBlob has opinions thus...

Posted October 2, 2010
Oh and continuing from 30/9/10.

Don't forget the Naxalite (sp?) Maoist insurgency.

You could probably run up an scenario where that was successful. You know indemic corruption, rice harvest failure, charismatic leader martyrd...

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clubby mumbles...

Posted October 3, 2010
MINI SERIES!

A 10+ episode miniseries would do far more justice than a piece of rushed crap which happened to Battlefield Earth.

Battlefield Earth was supposed to be 3 motion pictures which could have rivaled Star Wars, but didn't because of not enough of a budget, and not enough time in production, and only one movie instead of 3.

Please make either 3 movies of 3-hour + in length or make a 10+ mini series similar to Band of Brothers.

Please do not screw this one up, I have invested too much of my imagination and eyesight into reading the books :)

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