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It's like a Chinese Havoc is editor of the Chinese Telegraph

Posted August 3, 2016 into Politics by John Birmingham

And he wants to fkn nuke those convict fkrs from Australia. From the Japan Times:

Chinese state-run media has called Australia “an ideal target for China to warn and strike” if it ventures into the contested South China Sea.

The Global Times, known for its hard-line nationalist stance, blasted Canberra on Saturday in an editorial slamming its support for the July 12 ruling by an international arbitration tribunal at The Hague that invalidated China’s historical claims to much of the South China Sea.

Piling on insults, the paper called Australia a “country with an inglorious history. … at first an offshore prison of the UK. … established through uncivilized means, in a process filled with the tears of the aboriginals.”...

... “China must take revenge and let it know it’s wrong,” the commentary said. “Australia’s power means nothing compared to the security of China. If Australia steps into the South China Sea waters, it will be an ideal target for China to warn and strike.

28 Responses to ‘It's like a Chinese Havoc is editor of the Chinese Telegraph’

trib asserts...

Posted August 3, 2016
Sabre rattled.

HAVOCK21 swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted August 3, 2016
Actually its not really a Sabre, more like an outdated short fkn meat knife being operated by a SHORT STUNTED YELLOW FKN RETARD!. Big in their own fkn bath tub. Yeah, they have Nukes and without them they seriously are fkn ZIP.


Irs a reason we should have kept the 111's, could have turned their little holiday reef reclaim the sea , kill wild life I dont see fkn GREEPEACE OR all the other fkn tree hugging fkn gfree fkn loaders protesting out their into GLASS or in this case a burnt pile of shit!

insomniac asserts...

Posted August 3, 2016
That guy is a noob compared to the fab example of peak Havock right here

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Therbs ducks in to say...

Posted August 3, 2016
This reminds me of the old days of communist mouthpieces using phrases such as "running dogs of capitalism", "imperialist gangsters", "war mongering criminals". I love it. Bring back the Bamboo Curtain!

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HAVOCK21 swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted August 3, 2016
I read that article the other day. POX on his yellow skanky party kow towing arse!. Fkn CHINKS!....grrrrrrrrr FKN BIG BLACK SPOT IN MY HEART FO RTHEM

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Therbs mutters...

Posted August 3, 2016
Hav raises the interesting point that a number of natural reefs are being blitzed by China to build military installations. This would have an effect on local environments including depriving marine creatures of crucial habitat. Just love to see Rainbow Warrior or Sea Shepherd steam in there to defend the ocean wildlife.

HAVOCK21 puts forth...

Posted August 4, 2016
yeah, I noticed that they are currently all fkn tied up protecting some ten species of fkn SHRIMP from GUMP somewhere in the WA fkn DESERT FFSAKES and stopping a MINE..all be it a URANIUM FKN MINE , but thats beside the point.

They should be sailin their rust buckets into the Sth China Sea and slapping dems enviro killin fkn chinks.

I WOULD PAY TO SEE THAT!

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DarrenBloomfield puts forth...

Posted August 3, 2016
Cry Havock21! And let slip the dogs of war!

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Barnesm is gonna tell you...

Posted August 3, 2016
"if it ventures into the contested South China Sea".......is this something someone had ever suggested? Did I miss the memo?

John Birmingham ducks in to say...

Posted August 3, 2016
I think Tony Abbott wanted to send a tank regiment.

dweeze ducks in to say...

Posted August 4, 2016
Yeh, but that idea sank without a trace.

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FormerlyKnownAsSimon swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted August 4, 2016
Well, technically modern australia was started as a penal colony and did so through the tears of the indigenous population. They do know that white aussies all proudly try and declare a tie back to those scamps who got sent out here don't they? By the by - that link was dead. Was the Japan Times intimidated into taking it down? : )

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HAVOCK21 asserts...

Posted August 4, 2016
More rhetoric from the stunted munters in BEIJING!

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/02/asia/south-china-sea-supreme-court/index.html

NBlob reckons...

Posted August 5, 2016
"Stunted munters"

Heh heh heh

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Rhino is gonna tell you...

Posted August 4, 2016
Yinz guys wanna' rethink that whole guns thing?

HAVOCK21 ducks in to say...

Posted August 4, 2016
Australia should be like the WHOLE state of TEXAS when it comes to guns. OPEN FKN CARRY YEAH BABY!!!!

insomniac ducks in to say...

Posted August 4, 2016
I'd happily designate Christmas Island or Tasmania or somewhere similar for open carry for all the gun nuts, but once you go there you can never ever come back.

Therbs mumbles...

Posted August 4, 2016
I'd designate Goat Island in Sydney Harbour.

Peter in the bleachers reckons...

Posted August 4, 2016
To close, I suggest Heard Island.

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Lulu would have you know...

Posted August 4, 2016
"Yinz guys wanna' rethink that whole guns thing?"

No. I'm still comfortable with the idea of restricting them to trained professionals.

Therbs is gonna tell you...

Posted August 4, 2016
Hav's a trained professional. I have no problem with him carrying a FKN MUPPET CAPPING piece in the open.

GhostSwirv mutters...

Posted August 4, 2016

I think we're being a little loose with the use of the phrase 'trained professionals' here in BurgerWorld?

Therbs ducks in to say...

Posted August 4, 2016
Nah, trust me. He is both trained and a professional and I'd just love to see him toting a piece for the purpose of FKN CAPPING OF FKN MUPPETS!

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Gutz reckons...

Posted August 4, 2016
Not the Muppets!!!
I know Swedish Chef might
have some 457 visa issues and
Kermit is a spy for Greenpeace.
But cap the lot of them?
What about make an example of a few?
That professor who uses Beaker as
A lab rat? Fkn cap him. Gonzo? Cap.

ShaneAlpha ducks in to say...

Posted August 5, 2016
Just remember , you only get one shot at Miss Piggy, Miss and she'll have your balls in her purse before you can blink.

FormerlyKnownAsSimon mumbles...

Posted August 5, 2016
If Statler and Waldorf can prove financially able to support their obvious health problems, i wouldn't mind letting them in and sticking them up above the House of Reps or the Senate in the off season.

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Brother PorkChop would have you know...

Posted August 5, 2016
“country with an inglorious history. … at first an offshore prison of the UK. … established through uncivilized means, in a process filled with the tears of the aboriginals.”...??
Sounds like they might have been reading someone's book about the beginnings of Sydney.
Just as well we have the F35s nearly ready for combat eh.....

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NBlob asserts...

Posted August 15, 2016
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-15/australia-would-be-vital-in-a-us-china-war,-army-report-says/7735836

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A historian looks to the future. It's not pretty

Posted July 26, 2016 into Politics by John Birmingham

From a rather chilling little essay by Tobias Stone at Medium...

It will come in ways we can’t see coming, and will spin out of control so fast people won’t be able to stop it. Historians will look back and make sense of it all and wonder how we could all have been so naïve. How could I sit in a nice café in London, writing this, without wanting to run away. How could people read it and make sarcastic and dismissive comments about how pro-Remain people should stop whining, and how we shouldn’t blame everything on Brexit. Others will read this and sneer at me for saying America is in great shape, that Trump is a possible future Hitler (and yes,Godwin’s Law. But my comparison is to another narcissistic, charismatic leader fanning flames of hatred until things spiral out of control). It’s easy to jump to conclusions that oppose pessimistic predictions based on the weight of history and learning. Trump won against the other Republicans in debates by countering their claims by calling them names and dismissing them. It’s an easy route but the wrong one.

Ignoring and mocking the experts , as people are doing around Brexit and Trump’s campaign, is no different to ignoring a doctor who tells you to stop smoking, and then finding later you’ve developed incurable cancer. A little thing leads to an unstoppable destruction that could have been prevented if you’d listened and thought a bit. But people smoke, and people die from it. That is the way of the human.

So I feel it’s all inevitable. I don’t know what it will be, but we are entering a bad phase. It will be unpleasant for those living through it, maybe even will unravel into being hellish and beyond imagination. Humans will come out the other side, recover, and move on. The human race will be fine, changed, maybe better. But for those at the sharp end?—?for the thousands of Turkish teachers who just got fired, for the Turkish journalists and lawyers in prison, for the Russian dissidents in gulags, for people lying wounded in French hospitals after terrorist attacks, for those yet to fall, this will be their Somme.

61 Responses to ‘A historian looks to the future. It's not pretty’

Surtac mumbles...

Posted July 26, 2016
Yep. Scary indeed. Never fails to amaze me how most people simply won't look around them at the wider world or think beyond the end of their nose.

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sibeen swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 26, 2016
The link to the full article:

https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/history-tells-us-what-will-happen-next-with-brexit-trump-a3fefd154714#.exkkqzqjd

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Murphy_of_Missouri ducks in to say...

Posted July 26, 2016
Oh, wait . . . someone in the media is predicting doom and gloom again for America?

Well, I suppose they have to get their hits somehow.

John Birmingham is gonna tell you...

Posted July 26, 2016
Actually, they're more concerned with Europe. You guys are a sideshow.

Murphy_of_Missouri asserts...

Posted July 26, 2016
Ah, you got me, boss. I didn't read the entire article. Maybe because it reads like so many other similar articles I've read over the past forty years on any given part of the planet.

Halwes has opinions thus...

Posted July 26, 2016
Off topic. A royal commission into youth justice in the NT is only the tip of the iceberg with heavy emphasis on the word ice. Our police are punishers. Everybody knows.

Halwes puts forth...

Posted July 27, 2016
Enjoyed the book club last night. I think I will give Paradise Lost a big miss though. I miss Ms Hardy when she's not there. I do like intelligent women with a social conscience. The position that you had would have allowed you to check out her legs all night too. Ripped off! Probably for the best though.

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Murphy_of_Missouri puts forth...

Posted July 26, 2016
Uh, I call bullshit on the European Union preventing war. I believe the institution which should have been identified is NATO, and perhaps heavy American subsidies in general with an emphasis on defense in particular.

NATO was formed in 1949 and Brexit won't put an end to NATO anymore than France leaving NATO did. Meanwhile, Great Britain didn't join the European Union until the 1970s. So I guess I'm missing this academic's point on how Brexit is going to lead to World War III when France's departure from NATO in 1966 did not cause any such thing.

Near total European Unity is a flash in the pan in terms of historical longevity and the continent has been divided and fragmented for most of recorded history, save the Romans I suppose. If anything, efforts at unification seem to lead to more wars in Europe, not less, but what do I know?

Based on historical trends we are due for another wave of destruction? Perhaps the most dangerous thing any amateur or professional academic can do is point to the history books and go, "This happens every twenty years so it is going to happen again tonight."

Case in point? Presidential candidates and sitting Presidents in this country had a habit of getting bumped off or surviving the attempt on a regular basis. JFK, his brother Bobby, a near miss with Reagan, and I'm sure I'm missing a few.

So it stands to reason that someone might take a shot at Clinton.

Nope.

Bush?

Nope.

Obama.

Nope again.

Maybe I didn't take a logic class but I'm missing the logic of the point he is trying to make.

Other than the usual gloom and doom, we're fucked for this reason, sort of thing that can be readily found in the slushpile of any given Hollywood script shop these days.

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Murphy_of_Missouri mumbles...

Posted July 26, 2016
As for the Black Death, says the guy who suffered through six graduate school hours of it, I can very easily imagine what it must have been like because the primary sources on the matter are quite vivid. I suggest that perhaps part of the problem is that this guy's imagination is not nearly as strong as he thinks it is.

Or maybe seeing a bunch of charred corpses during one of those wars a few decades back might have aided my imagination a notch.

Anyway, sorry to be irritable about this article.

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GhostSwirv mutters...

Posted July 26, 2016

Maybe Toby's just read a faded copy of Tom Clancy's RED STORM RISING?

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Nocturnalist is gonna tell you...

Posted July 26, 2016
How does it go?

Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
Those who do learn from history are condemned to watch helplessly while everyone else repeats it.

Murphy_of_Missouri has opinions thus...

Posted July 26, 2016
Well, it never repeats per se. It simply finds an original permutation.

Besides, humans in general and historians in particular love to take messy, complex concepts and simplify them into something they think they can control with routine predictability.

That said, historians in reality are not akin to the ones depicted in Asimov's universe.

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HAVOCK21 asserts...

Posted July 26, 2016
Yes well, that’s a rather bleak and fkn depressing ensemble of letters. Europe in the Toilet hey, well given I think there might well be a purge internally at the current rate, if it stayed non nuke it might be good. If it were not for the fact that I fear Millions would be killed, I do wonder on that basis if it could venture south…some cleansing there is warranted. And then I think that the Dairy industry would be chuffed, at least with EU in war they would cease almost supplying the Chinks with their heavily subsidised products, we could in turn bend the Chinese over on that score.
But wait, if the US was to abstain from supporting the EU in a slug fest with Russia, that leaves them strong still in the PAC Rim. But with red head muppet features at the helm. China might well go for the shoals. Could you form a coalition of the brave from the ASEAN fkn retards….not sure, but as a collective on the high seas, a ASEAN coalition would stand a better chance against the PLAN than the ex NATO groups of the EU against the Russian bear.

Both are bloody, both will create massive economic upheaval, but housing prices might come down a weee bit.

Good read though, fkn depressing but

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HAVOCK21 asserts...

Posted July 26, 2016
Great! ASEAN just voted to resolve their issues in a dignified and non military manner ( code for take it up the keester by China).

Tell me Murph, could Malaysia, Singapore, the Philippines, Brunei and maybe Vietnam get their collective shit together and with some Skippy help, STAND TOO and maybe, just maybe win a fight if req. OH...JASDF might want a piece of that action too. How far East will we have to divert all the shipping trade etc when the south China sea turns RED in more fkn ways than one I fear!

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DaveC reckons...

Posted July 26, 2016
I read a great book years ago about the Bosnian war by a journo who lived through it, Slavenka Drakulic. There was one paragraph in her book which stayed with me, and it resonates with this article.

'War is not a single act, it is a state of facts and minds, a head-spinning spiral of events and gradual process of realisation. And even if my father had attempted to explain, it wouldn't have been any help to me now, because it seems that everyone has to learn this truth alone.'

Nothing's inevitable, even the status quo.

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DarrenBloomfield swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 26, 2016
I'm a fair bit with Murph on this, with a very healthy seasoning of George Friedman in "The next 100 years". Yes I know he's seen as a bit of a nut-job, But his thesis in that book draws on a mix of a few big things that are largely inevitable - the main one being the demographic-led depopulation of Russia. And some 'lessons from history' which I agree Murph can be spurious, but the one about the cycles of union/fragmentation of China is potentially instructive.

We are already seeing his prediction for the behaviour of Russia resulting from population decline, expansion (real or imagined) of NATO and the loss of buffer territory between it and the west, come true. As he puts it - St Petersburg was about 1000 miles away from NATO in 1989, now it is less than 100 miles away. Russia's response as stated in his book, seems underway already.

"Russia's grand strategy involves the creation of deep buffers along the northern European plain, while it divides and manipulates its neighbours, creating a new regional balance of power in Europe. What Russia cannot tolerate are tight borders without buffer zones, and its neighbours united against it" He concludes the passage thus: "This is why Russia's future actions will appear to be aggressive but will actually be defensive."

He predicts conflict between US/Russia/China. But not in a groundhog day kind of way. "The conflict will not be a repeat of the cold war, anymore than WWI was a repeat of the Napoleonic wars..."

In the same spirit, I just point out that a peaceful Europe is an exception rather than a rule. The 20th century peace is correlated with EU/NATO but I'm not sure where causation sits - probably the slaughter of the first half of it. Similarly, if peace doesn't last, it may be correlated with brexit (or Trump, or Putin, or me for that matter) but it may not be the cause of it.

What I will assert though, is that who governs does matter in the moment - no-one will convince me that if the cliffhanger 1960 US presidential election had have gone the other way that Nixon would have stopped crazyman Curtis LeMay from killing us all.

I reckon THAT is an alt-history novel in the writing...


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DaveC is gonna tell you...

Posted July 26, 2016
Agree about the relevance of leadership. No escaping Captain's calls. The novel 'Ressurection Day' was a half decent already history about a hot Cuban missile crisis. Spoiler (LeMay's arse-holeyness is turned up to 11 in this tale).

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DaveC reckons...

Posted July 26, 2016
I meant alt history. Damn you spell chucker!

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DarrenBloomfield would have you know...

Posted July 26, 2016
hey thanks - I'll have a read,

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slippy has opinions thus...

Posted July 26, 2016
I think the point is not the prediction (which he doesn't really make), but whether you are prepared to recognise the signs that indicate the pattern and do something about it. That shirky guy on twitter was right: the likes of Trump's and Pauline's and Jaqui's supporters want a racist welfare state (its just 'us and them' thinking in the end - when its clear that has never worked on any analysis whether economic, political, or ethical). We've seen it before [Godwin].

The New Yorker article buried in this article is pretty damn good:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html

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Charles Taylor has opinions thus...

Posted July 26, 2016
I think we are seeing the end of Democracy, it's beginning to allow the uneducated to run the world. Sturgeon in Scotland, Brexit, Trump and the slow rise of the right wing in Europe,

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Rhino mutters...

Posted July 27, 2016


I'd like to introduce my newest app for sale ... "The Chicken Little Panty Unbuncher". When your little panties get twisted and bunch up in your arse and cause you to run around screaming, "The sky is falling, Trump is Hitler, People that disagree with me are RACISSSSTTTTSSSSS".



Overpopulation was going to cause famine.



Global Cooling was going to cause mass extinction.



Ronald Reagan was going to cause nuclear war.



The problem with Europe is you've got too many arrogant twats stuffed into an area that wouldn't qualify for a good Sunday drive in Oz or the US. They are governed by petty, elite bureaucrats that keep doling out the goodies in an unsustainable fashion to keep the filthy masses from expressing their true natures; an historical legacy of trying to kill everyone that isn't in their tribe. The EU is the Harrison Bergeron of markets. Impose restrictions here to level the playing field. Impose restrictions there to make things fair. And when the market naturally corrects itself, impose more edicts to try and tamp that down.



I'm not a Trump supporter. But the mental gymnastics it takes to turn him into Hitler makes me laugh. The historical parallels just aren't there. Period.

HAVOCK21 mutters...

Posted July 27, 2016
ROLF. Yes Rhino and I agree. whilst he might display complete fkn nut job mannerisms now and then, that dont make him a global killing psychopath.

And here is the kicker. I guess if he gets voted in its by the majority that vote, those that dont vote dont get counted..so to speak. And that's the lovely part about a democracy. The thing that gets me, is that if he winds back Americas overseas engagement, and he has every right too I might add. we will at some point pay a steeper price to fix it. Now I am not saying its Trumps fault if that happens, its more a case of the lazy fkn munters who have been sheltering under the protective umbrella of other nations such as the US who have DONE FKN NOTHING either individually or as a collective group to raise their own level of ability and stop sucking off the US tit!

Again, you might apply that here in OZ to a degree and I would slap the previous Polys fkn silly for the same reason. We should have a larger and better equipped Defence force, not the size of the US , but certainly bigger in capability than what we now fkn have. And when that sort of group is paired with a similar collection they have capability. They dont necessarily have to rely on the US as the first and only form of defence. Now...that also means that we should have NUKES TOO, so the playing field is fkn level. After all, I trust the fkn CHINK as far as I can throw the fat pasty white fkn bastards!

Lobes mumbles...

Posted July 27, 2016
Saying "those that dont vote dont get counted" is completely wrong Havock. The leader of a democracy has the obligation to rule in the best interests for everyone. He doesnt get to just make policy for those who vote for him or donate to his campaign or give scholarships to his daughter. They must also lead for those who voted for the opponent and the children who are too young to vote and those who were ill or incapacitated on election day and yes, even those who couldnt be bothered to get out and vote.

HAVOCK21 asserts...

Posted July 27, 2016
Lobes you are correct and I was prolly not clear enough.

I agree with all, but my drive was more towards those that didn't vote not being able to winge. eg
He gets the majority vote, but from the minority value of the population, really fucked, But I suspect its a very real possibility. But govern for all, he must, yes dare I say it, even those that didn't vote but could have, the balance of persons who have legitimate cause not too, due to age, location ,illness or the likes I am fine with.

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DaveC mutters...

Posted July 27, 2016
One thing which upsets the apple cart of forecasting Great Power conflicts, distinct from five thousand years of historical precedent, are nuclear weapons. Less rational leadership could increase the likelihood of their use. But we've had occasional dumbasses in power over the last seventy years, so who knows? In addition to the Chicken Little app, Rhino, are you developing an 'I can't believe you think this is an invasion Putin un-puckerer? ' app? The Olympics are coming, so I was just wondering.

Rhino swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 27, 2016
Nope. Except for the UK they can all go fuck themselves this time around.\

HAVOCK21 mutters...

Posted July 27, 2016
yeah...fkn kind of sick of Europe to be honest!

OH did I mention I just bought a new firearm, now its time for another , this one might be a 7mm I think.

Halwes asserts...

Posted July 27, 2016
7 mm eh ? Probably about the same size as your dick

HAVOCK21 asserts...

Posted July 27, 2016
troll!

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DarrenBloomfield has opinions thus...

Posted July 27, 2016
Trump isn't Hitler, if anything he's a pale imitation of Greg Stillson. And he'd totally use a kid as a human shield I reckon,...

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Therbs asserts...

Posted July 27, 2016
That's what I like about history, it doesn't really repeat. Sure, you can track causes and fault lines but those don't replicate. There may be some similarities in events or trends but those don't necessarily lead to similar events.
Brexit, Trump and people like Hanson in Oz are indicative of people giving "up yours" messages to those they feel have screwed them over.
Trump, if he does become president will be a similar level of scary as George W, but not as dim witted. He has yet to put on the table any coherent policies. Brain fart rhetoric designed to point fingers and promise better times during vote-gathering election mode are a long way from legislation being presented to Congress. In the meantime there's amusement to be had in his cack handed comments, as well as concern.

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Therbs has opinions thus...

Posted July 27, 2016
Ok, if things are really going bad we have The Magnificent Seven to help out.
https://teaser-trailer.com/movie/the-magnificent-seven/

FormerlyKnownAsSimon mutters...

Posted July 28, 2016
hahahaha! the only thing that repeats itself is Hollywood.

Looks good though : (

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HAVOCK21 mumbles...

Posted July 27, 2016
"up yours" messages to those they feel have screwed them over.

therbs. THATS A REAL BIG PART OF IT! and thats the establishment has not fkn listened. and think they know best. Knights and squires and sooner or later the squire will cut your throat if you keep fking him over without lube!

GhostSwirv ducks in to say...

Posted July 27, 2016
Pretty much on the mark cry HAVOC21 - in the dim dark daze of Knights, Dukes and Dukettes the Royales were only those in possession of the systems of Communication Command and Control. Not any more - any bright spark with a SmartPhone can be King - and all the other not so brighter sparks can collaborate to make it so - even if they realise it or not. Frankly I blame SF & Alt-Hist writers for the mess we're in. If only they'd formed little teams to battle the Oliphant aliens, like in Footfall, but no ... they have to mess with the timelines, give clueless idealogues ideas and invent handheld communicators and tablets an' stuff so geeky scientists get aroused and start making sci-fyey things real - they're all like little white-coated Merlins trying to out magic one another. Despotism and Armageddon was so much more simple BWWW.

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Lobes ducks in to say...

Posted July 27, 2016
I laugh at your concerns about politics. We are in the middle of a climate emergency. 2016 has been the hottest year on record and we are about to transition into rapid exponential warming as the siberian tundra thaws out and releases billions of tons of CO2 and Methane. This is going to release more greenhouse gases in one event than humans have emitted in decades. The oceans will heat up and may or may not kill off most of the plankton that underpins the earths oxygen supply. Sea levels will rise very quickly, possibly in pulses. Would not want to be living in a coastal region (i live in a coastal region FML)

http://www.flassbeck-economics.com/how-climate-change-is-rapidly-taking-the-planet-apart/

Therbs is gonna tell you...

Posted July 27, 2016
As a busy arch villain I've been hatching all sorts of schemes to eliminate pesky secret agents and destroy this, burn that etc to make the planet uninhabitable for a period so my secret "Ark Base" becomes Earth's sole preserver of Terran life forms with me as the ruler. This Siberian tundra-melt option of yours seems feasible but a tad slow for my liking. I'll get my scienticians to step it up.

insomniac swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 27, 2016
Yes step it up will you. I'm relying on a 15m rise in sea levels to provide me with the increased values associated with a seaside property. I need just enough to drown out the neighbours at the bottom of the hill, but not enough to affect my actual property. Climate science is that accurate, isn't it?

HAVOCK21 swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 27, 2016
jesus, more than that, at 150m above sea level its gotta be BIG, I want beach front too!.

Just applying a wee bit more brain power to the whole melt thing. Wouldn't the rise in ocean levels mean that the fish populations would increase. I mean with more water about for those fisher blokes to chase them in, they have a better chance etc etc.

Lobes swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 27, 2016
The last time CO2 levels were this high the sea level was 23 meters higher. Temperature records are being broken on a monthly basis, 14 straight now, and CO2 is increasing. Everything that's happening is exceeding worst case scenarios and we are too busy obsessing over Terror and elections and Kanye and how shitty we are as a civilization to step away from the ledge. Well the ledge has given way now. We are in climate freefall and I have no idea how we'll land.

Guru Bob reckons...

Posted July 27, 2016
Why do you think I am now living on top of amountain here in sunny Armidale?

Lobes puts forth...

Posted July 28, 2016
This is an interesting link. If you want to survive rapid climate change follow the military bases when they relocate.

http://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/global-warming-impacts/sea-level-rise-flooding-us-military-bases?utm_source=tw&utm_medium=tw&utm_campaign=tw

NBlob asserts...

Posted July 29, 2016
Mr Lobes sir, your proposition intrigues me and I would like to subscribe to your pamphlet.

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jason has opinions thus...

Posted July 27, 2016
Enough of the doom and gloom. JB you are missing a winner here. Putin, Trump, Turnbull. The oligarchs conspire to carve up the world into financial empires and have their own armies to back them up. One grisly freedom fighter with a ragtag band of misfits is the only thing that can stop them (please please please name him after me). Undertones of capitalism v socialism. Chuck a little xenophobia into the mix. Can't go wrong.

Guru Bob is gonna tell you...

Posted July 27, 2016
Lots of online commentary at the moment about links between Putin and Trump.

Therbs puts forth...

Posted July 28, 2016
Trump calling on the Russians to hack Clinton's missing emails is pure gold.

HAVOCK21 mumbles...

Posted July 28, 2016
yeah, just when I thought is was safe to read the news again. The RED/ ORANGE headed fkn muppet comes out with another brain fart statement.

WOW!

jason is gonna tell you...

Posted July 28, 2016
Strangely I am a red/orange haired muppet. Sad but true. I assume you are referring to the richer muppet.

HAVOCK21 reckons...

Posted July 28, 2016
ROFL.

um

HELL YES! the only other one I know of is the young PRATT and I'n not sure he gets into the muppet cat, just ORANGE!

GhostSwirv puts forth...

Posted July 29, 2016


Jason and the Burgernauts battle the legions of Putin, Trump and Turnball ... I'd buy that for a $1!

SZF mutters...

Posted July 29, 2016
F*ck me. Not ANOTHER Young Adult dystopian fantasy series...

Respond to this thread

HAVOCK21 mutters...

Posted July 27, 2016
Um, JASON, I was thinking there must be a book somewhere and that the odds must be short for Trump to be the next PREZ shot if he gets in!. But the real question is, which demographic will get him first?

Halwes ducks in to say...

Posted July 27, 2016
I heard of someone who backed Trump for $1000 at 8 to 1 but I think he is about 3 dollars now. Clinton is odds on I believe. To come in from 8 dollars means that there has been a shitload put on Trump. Even PJ O Rourke reckoned he's voting for Clinton rather than Trump during his national press club address. I think Trump would be excellent theatre and I believe that he's in with a chance. The money is rarely wrong in politics though.

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jl has opinions thus...

Posted July 28, 2016
The Trump/Hitler comparisons are overblown. The little Austrian corporal was an evil political master, The Donald is a reality show star.

I happen to know a number of Trump supporters, and the rule seems to be that he's a "fuck you" vote to the system. Another friend who is an English lady voted for Brexit for similar reasons.

Most women I know are repulsed by Trump, but dislike Hillary as well. On balance, they will support Hillary.

One thing's for sure, this will be an election to remember. I plan on getting a nice bowl of popcorn and watching the fireworks.

BTW, we have had complete assbags for presidents before, and the world did not end. Every president is constrained by the other branches of government, the voters, and powerful interests foreign and domestic.

As for continental Europe? Time to ditch the mentality that war for any reason is wrong. There is no bigger crock of shit than the saying "violence never solves anything." It does. Only massively applied violence and tens of millions of deaths solved the whole Nazi/Japan problem.

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Stephen M. Stirling is gonna tell you...

Posted July 28, 2016
I detect the wails of frustrated entitlement in this article. Those who thought they were leaders and look behind... and how DARE THEY, they're not following!

John Birmingham swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 28, 2016
Ha! I almost sent you this link via email.

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Guy has opinions thus...

Posted July 28, 2016
Murph is so right about the EU. There has been a deluge of articles from the liberal left about how Brexit will lead to disaster. The truth is that historians in the future will shake their heads in bewilderment about why people couldn't see that the EU was a disaster waiting to happen. A first year economics student understands that you can't have an effective long-term monetary union without a political union and nobody in Europe is willing to form a single European superstate. It's just a matter of time before the whole rotten edifice falls apart. The UK's Brexit decision was the only sane response to the lunacy that is the EU.

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Barnesm swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 28, 2016
“Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”? Gordon R. Dickson, Tactics of Mistake

Therbs puts forth...

Posted July 29, 2016
Shai Dorsai!
Gonna have to revisit those books.

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Respond to 'A historian looks to the future. It's not pretty'

"And the spoils go to those with fewest fucks to give".

Posted July 22, 2016 into Politics by John Birmingham

This piece explainging "how trolls took the wheel of the clown car of modern politics", and which I found via Mike Carlton is a brilliant distraction as civilisation burns down around our heads.

So here we are at the Convention, where howling psychopath Donald Trump has just been confirmed as the presidential nominee, to the horror of half of the party and every remaining moderate conservative in America as well as the 15,000 members of the international press who flocked to see the circus in realtime. Milo is loving every second of it. He lost no time climbing on the back of the clown car of the billionaire demagogue who, with ghoulishly oedipal glee, he calls ‘Daddy.’

Read it all.

36 Responses to ‘"And the spoils go to those with fewest fucks to give".’

JBtoo swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 22, 2016
Sharp, succinct, scary.

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dweeze reckons...

Posted July 22, 2016
Scary indeed. Nicely written - terms like "unscrupulous whorebaggery" make me chuckle a lot...and then cry becuase they are so accurate.

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Surtac mumbles...

Posted July 22, 2016
A wonderful piece.

I first became aware of Laurie Penny via a guest post on (of course) Warren Ellis' blog around about the time of the 2011 London Riots and have followed her writings asiduously since. She's always worth reading.

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DarrenBloomfield has opinions thus...

Posted July 22, 2016
"There is a dustbin fire behind the blank eyes of his human suit"

Best description of this Arseclown I've ever read.

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Rhino mumbles...

Posted July 22, 2016
And now for something completely different ... We'll send a conservative to the DNC and have them pontificate about the evil there.

w from brisbane would have you know...

Posted July 22, 2016
I think Fox News will be doing that and they will be sending more than one.

Christopher Biggs is gonna tell you...

Posted July 31, 2016
To be fair, Laurie's next 2 articles about the Democtraic convention are far from complimentary. They're worth reading. You can't dismiss this as "well a leftie WOULD say that"

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NeoMorph reckons...

Posted July 22, 2016
John Birmingham is just hoping that Hilary wins the Presidency so that his Axis of Time series will go from Science Fiction to Science Fact(ish).

I wonder how long it will take for them to name a ship the USS Hillary Clinton?

insomniac puts forth...

Posted July 22, 2016
Well according to JB, not long at all.

Murphy_of_Missouri is gonna tell you...

Posted July 22, 2016
Remember. In that universe the third term president of the U.S. is dead by 2021.

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Dave W swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 22, 2016
It seems that Hunter has a worthy successor.

Rhino puts forth...

Posted July 23, 2016
She couldn't carry Hunter's drool bucket. A throwback reference to him and calling people names ... meh.

Yeah, it was pretty prose. Pretty, but empty. More like a college kid trying to emulate the Master by dropping some acid and hitting the keyboard. Hunter dragged this kind of thing, kicking and screaming, out of the shadows. The masses didn't know that it existed. Today, our self-styled princes and princesses abase themselves on the altar of YouTube, leaked sex tapes, Twitter, ad nauseum, They revel in the shocking of the masses and the masses eat it up with a spoon and ask for seconds.

This isn't the pure, undiluted power grubbing of Johnson or Nixon ... nope. This is evil and power grubbing as slapstick. Both sides.

damian mutters...

Posted July 23, 2016
Only because HST would have had nothing to do with guys like Milo or Roosh - he'd have talked openly about pulling their livers out through their mouths, but he wouldn't have dealt with them personally.

damian puts forth...

Posted July 23, 2016
Of course when I say "deal with", I'm talking about personal interaction and not taking suitable measures in the execution of robust policy settings. Roosh in particular, he may have lured to Aspen and buried under rocks somewhere up above the snow line.

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DarrenBloomfield mutters...

Posted July 22, 2016
Its you vs the creators of the Simpsons on this isn't it?

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Lulu mumbles...

Posted July 22, 2016
Trump: "We are going to build a border wall to stop immigrants"
Trudeau: "So are we"

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NBlob has opinions thus...

Posted July 22, 2016
Nice.

USA seems to have a system that selects for sociopathy. I accept that wasn't the intent. I wonder what was the intent? What is it that this process is designed to achieve? Commonality of porpoise, uniting behind the anointed, spur donors?

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DaveC ducks in to say...

Posted July 22, 2016
Donald Trump and Boris Johnson.... do not have personalities, they have haircuts. Ugly ones. And we have fallen through the looking glass in which they see themselves reflected as small gods.

Brilliant. And so very, very scary.

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ShaneAlpha would have you know...

Posted July 22, 2016
Haven't the Mexicans figured out the a wall will not only keep them out but will also keep the Americans in...with Donald Trump...Forever!

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Barnesm mumbles...

Posted July 22, 2016
That piece reminded me - must read more Laurie Penny

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Murphy_of_Missouri ducks in to say...

Posted July 22, 2016
We can only hope that one of the Vice-Presidents is worth a shit and that the primary candidate's term of office is very brief.

For the security agencies reading this post and wondering, I might direct you to this historical example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zachary_Taylor#Death

DarrenBloomfield swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 25, 2016
I'm with you Murph.

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Brown Couch has opinions thus...

Posted July 23, 2016
If you ignore it, it will go away.

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FormerlyKnownAsSimon asserts...

Posted July 25, 2016
“If he can only perform good or only perform evil, then he is a clockwork orange—meaning that he has the appearance of an organism lovely with colour and juice but is in fact only a clockwork toy to be wound up by God or the Devil.” And if we are talking trump, orange is an understatement! I can just see him or Milo calling his mates droogs as they go out for a bit of the old ultraviolence :)

Gives me the shivers that piece. But the USofA will do what the rest of the western world has done. Divide itself right down the middle with the right coming out with a slim majority. Broken model . . . or is that a working model? I can never decide. Either way it is the decimation of the middle that has landed us here.

Timmo ducks in to say...

Posted July 28, 2016
I think you've hit on the perfect analogy with A Clockwork Orange. That's the exact same sense I get from this story - a scenario in which the banality of mindless violence (if only metaphorical in this sense), becomes super-scary due to the complete disconnectedness of the perpetrators.
When politics becomes frenzy, with bile and hatred whipped up just to drive the ego of some bit-part players who see it all as a game, I get quite disturbed. And maybe it's not just the bit part players who see it as a game - I'm yet to be convinced that The Orange One is playing for anything more than to soothe his fevered ego.
One positive though is the article does make me stop and think about how I play the twitter/internet game - pure reaction and unrequited opinions help no-one and perhaps contribute negatively to social discourse.

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GhostSwirv ducks in to say...

Posted July 25, 2016
My wife, who I will kindly designate as GODDESS EARTH-MOTHER, for the purposes of CheeseBurgerynessness, (she's too feisty to be Mrs Ghosty) and I are off to the USA later this fiscal year.


We will be Halloweening in NYC before heading ways south onto DC during ELECTION HUNTING SEASON and are both starting to lose our shiny eyeball glintyness of whoa, we're going on a cool holiday to a mood more becoming of what the hell were we thinking and can we still cash in our tickets!


Does anyone have any advice on how to survive the impending opening of the HELLMOUNT that the eastern seaboard of the US seems to be precariously teetering on?


FormerlyKnownAsSimon ducks in to say...

Posted July 25, 2016
Apparently entree isn't entree sized - its much bigger and could feed two. Wholefoods also might be a good idea if you can find them. Stay away from tv and social media and the kerfuffle will seem like it doesn't exist. Pay attention to ground animals - if they are all running in a certain direction follow them at speed. That's all i got.

Therbs would have you know...

Posted July 25, 2016
If needs be Canada is to the north. Montreal's a pretty cool place and Toronto has some good pubs. Although it'd be a bit brisk up there early November. Mebbe Mexico, the Baja peninsula.

NBlob mutters...

Posted July 25, 2016
Americans breakfast & BBQ far better than us. I happily lived on 2 meals a day there. Intercity trains rock, underground metros are excellent, all other public transport should be disregarded. Relative to Au cabs are cheap, 2 arses make them viable for much intercity type movement. Town cars and courtesy coaches are also excellent options. A nice fella at the arrival lounge with a sign saying "Mr Ghost", a van and a winning smile after a 18 hour flight is a beautiful thing. But the cities are massive. NYC and its Burroughs, cling ons, bedroom suburbs etcetera is fully 10 times the size of Melbourne.

NBlob would have you know...

Posted July 25, 2016
Tipping: default to anyone who does something for you gets a couple of bucks. Waiter & barman %15. Guy who takes your bags to hotel room $5. It's shit, but it's how their kids eat & they don't know any other way.

NBlob swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 25, 2016
Americans are generally as generous as Arabs, more courteous than Brits, far more Gullible than Danes and as patriotic as the French -I think with more reason. They love a laugh and will frequently insist on offering you hospitality above & beyond. You can slag off their NFL, Hockey, ball, Basketball or NASCAR team and they'll usually accept it as good natured ribbing. Imply that the USA may be a touch intervention-happy (Chile, Granada, Cuba, Vietnam, Iraq & the Stan oh my.) and you may cross a line. That old thing about "don't talk about money, religion or politics" may be an astute option, at least until you've assured yourself your new friend isn't armed.

Rhino mutters...

Posted July 26, 2016
All of us are armed.

Murphy_of_Missouri ducks in to say...

Posted July 26, 2016
Yeah, being armed has advantages.

Therbs mutters...

Posted July 26, 2016
Its great how you can go into a bar in the U.S. ask a couple of dumb questions about the ball game which is being shown and all of a sudden become involved in a beery sports fest. Sometimes you need to repeat yourself given how the Strayan accent can confuse people.

Murphy_of_Missouri mumbles...

Posted July 26, 2016
Therbs, any accent in this country confuses people here. Even the American accents have that effect.

GhostSwirv swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 26, 2016

Golly gee, shucks you guys - thanks a bunch. This is way more useful intel than I anticipated. Suddenly feeling much more prepared, although there was that little reference by RHINO and MURPH to the extra arms thingy ... given that Little 'Man o' Steal' Johnny Howard was George WubbleU's Deputy Dawg do we have to lock n' load and open carry - or can we just strangers in a strange land?

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Respond to '"And the spoils go to those with fewest fucks to give".'

Chris Brown's very funny election guide.

Posted July 3, 2016 into Politics by John Birmingham

I got this via email. Not sure where, if anywhere, it's been published. Happy to post the link if it turns up. It's very very funny, and you might just need it again in a couple of months:

NOT SURE HOW TO VOTE ON SATURDAY? Worried that the double dissolution will make it easier for the wrong people to get into the Senate? Me too. So I’ve written a cheat sheet that I can take into the booth with me to remind me who’s who.

Health Australia Party
Rebranding of the Natural Medicine Party, which was probably a better description. Anti-vaxxers, fluoridophobes and homeopaths trying to expand their business via changes to medical legislation.

Seniors United Party of Australia
Finally, a voice in parliament for the wealthiest generation that ever lived.

Family First
But only if your family consists of a white Christian man, a white Christian woman and at least two white Christian children and you believe everyone else is headed straight for hell.

Liberal Democrats
Headed by David Leyonhjelm, who made it into the Senate in 2013 because of a herd of Lib voters being too stupid to correctly identify their preferred party. The Lib Dems are committed Libertarians whose ability to ignore all of the evidence on every possible issue would make any cult proud.

VOTEFLUX.ORG | Upgrade Democracy
Flux (n) – an abnormal or morbid discharge of blood or other matter from the body. Whenever there’s a bill before the Senate, you use an app to discharge your opinion into a tame crossbencher and tell him (yes, it’s always going to be a him) which way to vote on each bill. Founded by two Bitcoin consultants, and works on the same blockchain principle, whatever the hell that means.

Liberal
You wake up in an ice bath and realise that your left leg is missing, and Rupert Murdoch tells you that brown people and greenies and reds all conspired to steal your leg and are coming back for the rest of your limbs, but then why is Rupert wearing a blood-stained hospital gown, and why does his left leg look familiar, and there, on the knee, isn’t that the scar that you got when you were ten years old and fell off your bicycle?

The Nationals
You wake up in a shed and realise that your left leg is missing, and Rupert Murdoch tells you that brown people and greenies and reds all conspired to steal your leg and are coming back for the rest of your limbs, but then why is Rupert wearing a blood-stained hospital gown, and why does his left leg look familiar, and there, on the knee, isn’t that the scar you got when you were ten years old and got kicked by a horse?

Democratic Labour Party (DLP)
If you’re an economic progressive yet somehow still a dyed in the wool Christian homophobe, this is the party for you.

Science Party
Formerly the Future Party. They’re still naïve, but now they’ve got a full quiver of policies, mostly geared toward fixing the shitblizzard of the last three years.

Australian Cyclists Party
Does exactly what it says on the box.

Shooters, Fishers and Farmers
This party is like the time I hurt my back a few years ago and thought the problem would go away like it always had before, except it didn’t and now I live with chronic back pain.

Voluntary Euthanasia Party
As advertised.

Socialist Alliance
The kind of socialists you can actually have a conversation with.

Rise Up Australia Party
The actual worst. Founded by someone who got thrown out of Family First for too much hate speech, which is like getting kicked out of Labor for not doing anything.

Labor
The post-war European centre right party for Australia today.

Online Direct Democracy – (Empowering the People!)
Like VOTEFLUX, but with PollyWeb instead of the Bitcoin blockchain. (If you say that sentence backwards at the stroke of midnight when the moon is full, Lucifer will appear and grant you three votes on bills that will never get up.)

Derryn Hinch’s Justice Party
It turns out that this is about Derryn Hinch’s notion of justice, not about bringing Derryn Hinch to justice. Which is disappointing. A Federal party campaigning on State issues, implying either ignorance or extreme cynicism. My money is on cynicism.

Jacqui Lambie Network
Anatomically incorrect: the logo is a map of Tasmania, but the policy platform is an arsehole.

Pirate Party Australia
Basically progressive, and I agree with them on most things, but their ideas on intellectual property are anti-artist and their views on tax are just idiotic.

Pauline Hanson’s One Nation
Have you ever licked a gallbladder?

Veterans Party
Supporting veterans with no nonsense, no political game playing and absolutely no policies.

Secular Party of Australia
Basically pretty great, but there are a couple of issues where the commitment to secularism starts to look a little like Islamophobia.

CountryMinded
I don’t agree with everything they say, but I’m not really their target audience. This is essentially the party that the National Party should be.

Socialist Equality Party
Trotskyists. Well-intentioned but fanatical. These are the people who never forgot that Che’s real first name was Ernest.

Katter’s Australian Party
Uncle Ho and Margaret Thatcher cohabiting in a single mind.

Palmer United Party
The earth will shake violently, trees will be uprooted, mountains will fall, and all binds will snap – Palmer will be free. Palmer will go forth with his mouth opened wide, his upper jaw touching the sky and his lower jaw the earth, and he will swallow Odin in a single gulp. Flames will burn from his eyes and nostrils, and his sons will come after to swallow the sun and the moon.

Citizens Electoral Council
Possibly just straight-up insane. Climate deniers, but economically kinda socialist. Anti-Semitic and possibly white supremacist, but pro-immigration. They also claim that the Port Arthur massacre was commissioned by the British royal family and implemented by a mental health NGO.

Australian Motoring Enthusiast Party
The Eddie the Eagle of befuddled right-wing governance.

Animal Justice Party
Better people than me.

The Arts Party
Sound policies, surprisingly shitty logo. Come on Arts Party, you had one job to do.

Non-Custodial Parents Party (Equal Parenting)
Fielded candidates for the last six Federal elections. Seventh time lucky, guys.

Mature Australia
Your racist Western Australian aunt.

Christian Democratic Party (Fred Nile Group)
The party’s charter is just a bunch of bible quotes. It’s like we’re in Pennsylvania in the fucking 17th Century.

Australian Sex Party
Are you turned on by sound economic and social policies with a strong evidence basis? Then number the box and put your ballot in the slot.

Australian Progressives
A broad suite of evidence-based best practice policies that only seems progressive because Australia is such a regressive ideological clusterfuck.

Nick Xenophon Team
A bit far to the right for me personally, but Xenophon has done exactly what an independent senator is supposed to do, and pretty close to exactly what he said he would do. Which is refreshing.

Drug Law Reform
Single issue party focused on treating drug use as a health issue rather than a criminal one. The stance seems well reasoned. It’s just a bit hard to take them seriously when their logo is a hemp leaf.

Sustainable Australia
Formerly the Stable Population Party. They want a ‘sustainable’ population through lower immigration. If they actually cared about sustainability they’d be calling for a lower global population, but instead they’re calling for reduced population growth in a country with only 24 million people. Which means that what they are is simply racist.

The Greens
Yes, they wear suits now, but at least those suits are made from sustainable bamboo in a small Liberian social enterprise that sponsors education initiatives for orphaned girls.

Australian Liberty Alliance
Angry Anderson (remember him? didn't think so) vowing to stop the Islamisation of Australia. Last time I checked, Islam was holding steady at 2.2% of the population, so maybe one bald dickhead is all it takes to hold the hordes at bay.

Renewable Energy Party
Single issue, seems good prima facie, but founded by Peter Breen, who was Ricky Muir’s only staffer for a time. I can’t figure out whether this is a good sign (Breen taught Muir how to be a halfway decent senator) or a terrible sign (how can someone go from the petrolhead party to a renewables party and expect to be believed?).

Marijuana (HEMP) Party
Entirely about legalising weed, and there’s no suggestion that they’ve thought about a policy position on any other issues. My concern is that they’d side with anyone who takes snacks into the chamber.

Anti-paedophile Party
Fair enough, but they’re also anti-sex education. So they’re imbeciles.

14 Responses to ‘Chris Brown's very funny election guide. ’

Rico asserts...

Posted July 3, 2016
Maybe this:
https://www.facebook.com/chris.browne.372/posts/10154153542606421

Respond to this comment

Halwes has opinions thus...

Posted July 3, 2016
Stupid Labor are carrying on like they won FFS. They got a fairly low primary vote which was only supported by the clear thinking aussies who voted for independents and minor parties. I voted for the sex party and now no one will tell me where it is. I'm really hoping Pauline Hanson will be there. What a spunk. And so representative of our great country. Let's not forget that it is Queenslanders that have delivered this suppository of wisdom to us. How can I ever thank them enough?

Respond to this comment

NBlob reckons...

Posted July 3, 2016
Very fine. Very very fine, that and the "You can't waste your vote" flyer should have been pressed into the hands of every gormless pencil wielder in the country. At least then we'd have something to talk about. http://www.chickennation.com/2013/08/18/you-cant-waste-your-vote/

Halwes mumbles...

Posted July 4, 2016
Aussies are busily taking the piss and then you go and get all intellectual and serious on us Blob. Good link though. So if I vote for the sex party and put Corey Bernardi second then I can get dirty sex followed by Christian absolution and get to sit on the right hand side of god followed by dirty sex etcetera. Where do I sign?

NBlob mutters...

Posted July 4, 2016
Just prick your thumb and place it *here*

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Moko swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 3, 2016
I can't vote in Australia ... yet. Brace yourselves. But I always have voted for the Legalise Cannabis Party in UnZud. No reason to change now ... except for not being able to smoke because of work. Fucken stupid work.

NBlob is gonna tell you...

Posted July 3, 2016
+1 stupid work.

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Therbs reckons...

Posted July 4, 2016
Excellent!

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Lulu mumbles...

Posted July 4, 2016
"Socialist Alliance" and "Socialist Equality Party" - I was rather wondering if this was a Monty Python situation, with the People's Front of Judea vs Judean People's Front.

Sudragon swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 4, 2016
Splitters!

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BigWillieStyle puts forth...

Posted July 4, 2016
I voted Flux in the Senate. I thought there should be at least person who did, plus I like the idea of having my very own Manchurian Candidate in parliament.

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Barnesm asserts...

Posted July 4, 2016
Brilliant stuff from Mr Brown, ideally he should be there to provide colour to Anthony Green's election reportage on the night.

Certainly less likely to invoke a desire to facepunch the screen which is the result of having Scott Morrison on the TV.

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Bangar would have you know...

Posted July 4, 2016
Remember there may not be some one to vote for but there is always someone to vote against

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bazzaa swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted July 12, 2016
I do a lot of volunteer work with pensioners. I'm afraid I don't see too many of these 'wealthy' ones, unless you measure wealth by how many times you make it to the PBS Safety Net?

Millenials, by contrast, are often to be found cruising downtown in their brand new 50 grand Hilux to pick up yet another 60" TV for their 8 bedroom McMansion.

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Respond to 'Chris Brown's very funny election guide. '

Brexit

Posted June 27, 2016 into Politics by John Birmingham

I'm back from a week at the beach and much has changed.

Lord Nblob wisheds to dicuss the UK's leaving of Europe, and possibly their senses, but I'm not familiar enough with it to write much. It just seems a bit of a monster raving loony decision to me.

Perhaps I shall turn this over to Mr Wrren Ellis, who weekly newsletter, Orbital Operations, was mostly concerned with the madness of Brexit.

(You can subscribe here).

Not a great week, eh?

I've spent the last couple of days wondering what the hell I'm going to say here. As most of you know, my country voted to leave the European Union.

Jo Cox, foreign aid worker, anti-slavery activist and MP, was shot in the face, shot twice more and then stabbed multiple times by a man who gave his name in court as "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain." Vote Leave repeatedly flew a plane trailing the slogan banner "Take Control #VoteLeave" over her memorial in London. On the night of Leave's victory, UKIP leader Nigel Farage claimed to have won a war of independence "without a single bullet being fired."

Yes, I'm furious, still.

Ex-commodity broker Farage, inspired to enter politics by Enoch Powell and as cartoonishly-drawn an incipient Fascist leader as could be imagined, is gleefully informing people that Leave promises like 350 million a week put into the National Health Service were bare-faced lies and that he still intends to push for its dismantlement. The EU exit does not block future immigration, and towns like Sunderland that voted Leave experience around a quarter of the average immigration rate per capita. (Sunderland's massive swing for Leave is put down to one of the region's major employers, Nissan, writing to its employees suggesting they may want to consider Remain because something like half their output is sold into the EU.)

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson (yes, you read that right) is likely to be the next Prime Minister - while Farage claims Brexit as a defeat of the elite by "ordinary. decent people," he has been an instrument in placing a man related to most of the royal families of Europe and educated in Brussels and Eton into power.

The EU is moving to punish us. Technically, the legal instrument to commence our exit from the EU doesn't have to be triggered for some time -- in fact, some legal voices say there's not actually a basis to trigger it at all. But it seems the EU intend to punitively fast-track British exit in order that other member states get a good look at what happens when you fuck up this badly.

Immigration is what makes this country great. Always has been. Free movement is what has allowed millions of British people to live and work in Europe. Kind of nervous about showing my face in Berlin or Paris now, to be honest with you.

Scotland want to negotiate their own stay in the EU, which is unlikely, as then it opens up the possibility of, say, the Basque region or Catalonia deciding they might like their own status with the EU as a precursor to another move for independence from Spain.

I confess to still not being completely rational about all this.

The Labour Party's defense of Remain was, frankly, somewhat half-hearted and somewhat stumbling, and now leader Jeremy Corbyn is dealing with movements to remove him by apparently setting up an auto-da-fe that seems quite likely to burn the current party structure to the ground.

And, hey, Sunday morning, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon thinks she sees a way to veto the exit. Concerns about rising hate speech. Leave campaign may not have had a post-win plan. Increases in hate speech reported. Rumblings of Corbyn planning to have ex-PM Tony Blair imminently investigated for war crimes, triggering a Blairite coup. Schisms in EU about speed of exit. Everything is happening very fast right now, and some of what I've said above may be about to change, and may already have changed by the time this reaches you.

I would love to have something brilliantly clever to say about all this, or even warmly comforting, but I am feeling neither clever nor comfortable.

Perhaps I may sleep under Glastonbury Tor until Albion needs me again.

38 Responses to ‘Brexit’

Surtac is gonna tell you...

Posted June 27, 2016
Warren is always wise.

Remember, despair is a sin. Anger, such as Warren's above, is a better reaction.

My own reaction, as a non-Brit but married to a Scot, is severe disappointment.

Murphy_of_Missouri mumbles...

Posted June 28, 2016
Not about the reading habits of folks living in the American Midwest, but then I digress.

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Dave W swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted June 27, 2016
Travelling to Germany in a few weeks. Mrs W and I are both UK passport holders. But will be blazoning ourselves with Aussie flags, now.

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Therbs mumbles...

Posted June 27, 2016
To me it was the anti-immigration types pandering to a "Love Thy Neighbour" mentality; "Eeeeh! That Eddie's a scamp isn't he? But deep down a loverly chap."
That sort of fear of outsiders taking jobs, culture and national identity away was not countered well by the Remain group. There is now the real concern that those who work in manufacturing and service industries will lose jobs as EU countries look elsewhere for products. The older voters who strongly supported the "leave" campaign may well find their pension funds devalued in the subsequent ructions in markets and uncertain trade arrangements. That'd be a fine irony.
There is some thought that the younger voters who'd prefer to stay didn't turn out in enough numbers because, you know, Facebook, Twitter and lassitude.
It was an emotional vote based on fear and a yearning for "old" Great Britain. Its almost as if they want to bring back rationing, crap Leyland cars and pub's closing between lunch and dinner. Oh, and Dick Emery.
The politics of fear. Emotion over thought.
Kinda reminds me of something.
So when do we start sending care packages again?

HAVOCK21 mutters...

Posted June 27, 2016
Can anybody tell me why the incumbent retards didnt make this a MANDATORY FKN VOTE! or did they think they had the numbers etc etc. I'm watching .........its a fkn train wreck I think..pending!

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Aaron would have you know...

Posted June 27, 2016
Who needs a clever conspiracy when all you need is some half assed rhetoric aimed at people who couldn't be bothered to google what they were voting on.

insomniac swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted June 27, 2016
Are you referring to Great Britain or Australia?

Bondiboy66 asserts...

Posted June 27, 2016
Seems to work well for both....

Barnesm mutters...

Posted June 28, 2016
Apparently they googled it AFTER they voted. At least according to the google analytics including the phrase 'what is the EU?'

Cynic mutters...

Posted July 15, 2016
Hi Barnesm

That was debunked the day before you posted that comment.

http://www.ibtimes.com/no-britons-were-not-frantically-googling-what-eu-hours-after-brexit-vote-2387205

damian reckons...

Posted July 16, 2016
Yep, definitely sea-lioning.

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pitpat is gonna tell you...

Posted June 27, 2016
I think from what I have read that the majority have given the elite the finger. Those well educated smug condescending and well meaning individuals have just had a powerful lesson in why you should go down to the pub on a Friday evening to have a listen to what the shop worker, the single parent, the recently sacked, and the middle management types think when they are half cut and are more likely to tell you what they actually think.

The majority that voted for the exit have done so purely out of self interest. This is at least honest. Whether it was an emotional or rational response is not relevant. From my distant view I can see no morally right or wrong position, and economically it is far from clear that the EU was going to survive much longer anyway. It may turn out to be well out of the coming carnage that is surely coming western Europe's way.

Barnesm reckons...

Posted June 28, 2016
"so purely out of self interest" like the town Ebbe Vale in Wales that of those who voted, 62% voted to leave, inspite of meaning they loose out on significant funding provided by the EU. The Guardian estimates 1.8bilion promised by the EU for infrastructure by 2020 is no longer assured.

Its not self interest, when you aren't provided with the correct information to make a rational decision. How can you know what's in your 'best interest' when your are manipulated and those who you depend on for information lie to you.

pitpat is gonna tell you...

Posted June 28, 2016
I'd agree with a caveat. That being that at the time of casting their vote they acted in what they thought was in their ( and presumably their families) best interest based on the information they had to hand. It is not rational. Voting is a popularity contest, it is not based on merit, the best idea does not always win, if you give people a binary choice don't be surprised if they don't agree with you. The failure of the 'remain' camp and the EU in general to positively articulate their message only exacerbated an already fear laden older populace who are worried about their children's future. These are the people who voted.

Therbs reckons...

Posted June 28, 2016
Similarly with agriculture. The EU subsidises UK agriculture by 2.5 - 3 billion pounds per year. This represents up to 60% of income for farmers who receive EU and environmental subsidies. Farms which aren't economically viable but assist in maintaining a green environment (and look pretty as well) are subsidised. This happens throughout the EU. So there's another thing which the UK government will need to address.
Other will point out the possible movement of financial businesses (what they call The City in London) to EU bases. London has been seen as an important hub in the EU financial world. Mebbe not so much in the near future.
A lot of consequences which weren't considered. Fear won.

damian puts forth...

Posted June 28, 2016
London is the biggest exchange market for the Euro, even though the UK is not a Eurozone country. It can only do this because the UK is an EU member state, which means it simply can't continue when that isn't the case.

Therbs ducks in to say...

Posted June 28, 2016
Yep. I reckon the facilities/real estate teams in the major banks/institutions will be keeping an eye out on commercial lease options for extra floor space in their Euro locations. In a year or two could be some attractive lease options come up in the vacated London spaces.

damian swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted June 28, 2016
Not to mention housing not longer required for City yuppies. It could mean apartments in London becoming affordable for the first time in generations.

Cynic asserts...

Posted July 15, 2016
Damien: "London is the biggest exchange market for the Euro, even though the UK is not a Eurozone country. It can only do this because the UK is an EU member state, which means it simply can't continue when that isn't the case."

- I don't think that's true: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/06/30/hollandes-empty-threat-to-strip-london-of-euro-trading-and-clearing-post-brexit/#17757f1e3720

damian is gonna tell you...

Posted July 16, 2016
The article you link doesn't actaully say that, rather it characterises Hollande saying something similar as an "empty threat" and makes a series of assertions without any convincing argument or citation. This opinion piece in Forbes doesn't say anything about the quite widespread discussion around the London financial markets finding more accommodating homes in Frankfurt, Paris and Rome. The columnist appears to be arguing against a case that no-one is making.

You on the other hand seem to be sea-lioning.

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Sparty mumbles...

Posted June 27, 2016
I voted "Remain" ,now that was a catchy slogan :-(
So my two cents (actually only 1.4 cents since Stirling devalued)

apart from the dire economic consequences (which may or may not be long term)
1. Union will break up- Scotland will leave
2. Connected to the above, and the fact we can’t afford it- we won’t have a Trident replacement. I don't particularly want a replacement (although i do think we should keep nukes - anything that would make a mess of a few cities in Middle East should suffice) but I know that Putin will consider cancellation a geopolitical win.
3. Irish problem will reignite, and you know what- as the son of an Ulster protestant I’d actually support a United Ireland now.
4. Boris pure rationale was to become leader of Tory party and PM – but he counted on losing the vote – but still critically wounding Cameron – now we’re leaving its genuinely acknowledged that Boris lack of eye for detail just isn’t up to the job…..so he may have F’*ked himself as well as the country.
5. This may be the first chink in the western alliance which brings everything tumbling down.
6. The pre-eminence of the english language (and associated value system may well suffer as a consequence
7. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=brexit+planet+of+apes+cartoon&client=firefox-b&biw=1093&bih=458&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwji1aCr8sfNAhWkB8AKHZUvDoMQ_AUICCgD#imgrc=ev8-UzkurzPTsM%3A

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NBlob is gonna tell you...

Posted June 27, 2016
1. Tip of the thinsulate lined beanie.
2. 2 parts ignorance, 1 part anger. Blend with a handful of Apathy. Blend. Serve in a tall glass with bruised & balkanised Tories.
3. Or the first proxy war between Murddoch aging Sultanate vs El Goog & Farcebook.

Barnesm ducks in to say...

Posted June 28, 2016
That would taste awful.

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damian reckons...

Posted June 27, 2016
Scotland will do something, whether or not they can block the Brexit. Their second secession referendum is "highly likely". I don't see how independent Scotland in the EU means a Basque state too, but also not convinced if it did that would be a bad thing (though cf Northern Ireland).

Not sure how many more whispers of Irish Unity it will take to make us suddenly very aware just how many guns the IRA and the UDA/UFF have squirreled away. Both sides contain factions of humorless people with long memories, who weren't really convinced the fighting should stop the last time around. Not sure an independent Ulster makes any more sense of course.

For England an immediate increase in the frequency and severity of racist violence (some say already happening, others that it's the new normal). Farange has already proudly boasted that the thing he said about the NHS was a big lie. Cameron has trashed Jonson's career on his way out. Already clear that as far as the Tories are concerned membership of the EU or not will have zero effect on immigration. And whatever is left of the UK will have at least one land border with at least one EU member state (not counting the chunnel).

The other part is that the investment bankers (not just rhyming slang here) will likely need to relocate and that's a really big deal. The London financial markets have made a big, big thing out of being based in a non-Eurozone but EU member state. Maybe the Brits are well in the rights to see the backside of those parasites, but it doesn't mean they, or the rest of the world, get a free ride through any resulting economic effects. No-one really knows what those are right now. It might not be a massive global recession, but it's not likely to be happy fun times either. For us looking to something like Swann's performance in 2007/8 is the model for weathering that, and we can only hope there isn't a nitwit like Morrison in the hot seat when the time comes.

Lulu is gonna tell you...

Posted June 28, 2016
"Not sure an independent Ulster makes any more sense of course."

Going by my own extended family, the humorless Ulster Presbyterians who paint Union Jacks on their letterboxes tend to have cultural / family / etc links with Scotland. So if Scotland exits the UK to stay in the EU, they might be happy doing the same. However, the possibility of a "United Kingdom of Scotland & Ulster" might be looked upon less kindly by the Ulster Republicans.

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damian reckons...

Posted June 27, 2016
And le sigh, is there a reliable way to get paragraph spacing in this place anymore?

NBlob reckons...

Posted June 28, 2016
You need to pop down to Greybeard's HTML foundry. He wrought for me a pair of jabby brackets and a nice br to fit between them. They work quite well

sometimes.

NBlob has opinions thus...

Posted June 28, 2016
Sometimes, when fruit fondle slab doesn't auto capitalise.

damian asserts...

Posted June 28, 2016
Seems legit

Huzzah!

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Aaron ducks in to say...

Posted June 27, 2016
My statement could apply to both oz and uk or most places for that natter.

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Dirk has opinions thus...

Posted June 28, 2016
About 300 kliks from ground zero on the other side of the channel, dust is settling. The vox populi that rears its - imho ugly - head in Europe at the moment and won it's first battle. And though we, on this side of the channell will reap the benefits of this, the situation saddens me. I'll explain:

For all intends and purposes it's 1848 again. Then as now in an continent that was at peace, it was believed something had to change. Sure, the EU isn't perfect, neither are those who rule it. But thinking that a process of splitting it up is the solution, will have dire consequences.

1848 brought us constitutional monarchies, liberalism, revolutions, the naissance of socialism, and a lot of death. War in the 1860-1880 followed in Germany, Denmark and France, which led to ultimately WW1 and 2.

So a few predictions:
1. the end of the United Kingdom; broken up in a block of England-Wales, an independent Scotland (in the EU) and maybe even an united Ireland (also in the EU).
2. England klinging to it's nukes, but with no money to renew them. High unemployment and an exodus of intellect and capital.
3. A new EU in which the Benelux, Austria and Germany (and maybee a France under Sarkozy and Italy) will become for all intends and purposes one state (USofE lets say). A safe haven for British capital and free minds, but with a strict immigration barrier to the not so fortunate brothers and sisters in the rest of Europe and Africa/ME.
4. A fractured old EU in which a Front National dominated France, Italy, Spain, Portugal and the Eastern block will have to lick their wounds and hope for handouts from the USofE block.
5. A Scandinavian block which will be more akin to the German/Benelux block and in the future could merge with it.

But one thing will be certain I fear. There will be blood and tears. A Chinese curse is "May you live in interesting times". Alas we do ...

So the glass is half empty I fear.

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NBlob ducks in to say...

Posted June 28, 2016
Another thought bubble:
Campaigns I've witnessed featured nuanced messages that bore *some* relationship with what one could call reality.

It would seem that some of the statements made ( I only know of examples from the Exit campaign) were flat false. Out & out horesh!t with 0.0 factual content. Yet people, presumably good, normal rational people reacted to these myths as fact. <Br>
Consequences?

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NBlob swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted June 29, 2016
That nice young Mr Carlin has an interesting take.

Suggesting that under an authoritarian regime the Lumpenproles can be *reasonably* controlled through a playbook old as the hills.

In a participatory democracy the proles, once sufficiently disaffected with the Established parties, start delivering electoral FuckYous. Probably to their own long term cost, but (& heres the rub) not significantly more than they were getting screwed by the current version.

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Guy has opinions thus...

Posted June 30, 2016
I voted Leave for the simple reason that I want my country to be governed by people I can vote to remove if I think they're doing a crap job. I can't vote for anyone on the European Commission or the "President of Europe", yet these people have huge power over the UK.

Also, the EU is a disaster, with the nonsensical Eurozone about to fall apart and the Schengen passport-free zone being a paradise for terrorists (remember the Paris and Brussels bombs?) and hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants.

Yes, there's a lot of instability because of Brexit, but it will settle down, and I don't believe anyone in the USA would accept people from Costa Rica or Chile having a big say in how America is run, so why should we accept people from Slovenia and Spain having power over the UK?

I don't know about Australia - would you be happy taking orders from politicians from Indonesia and Japan?

Frankly I'm getting a bit sick of being told that anyone who voted to Leave is obviously a racist. You may not agree with me, but remember I'm part of the majority.

Lulu swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted June 30, 2016
Guy, unless something has changed in the past couple of years, the UK is not part of Schengen. The last time I got a Schengen visa (2010) it did not entitle me to enter the UK.

NBlob is gonna tell you...

Posted June 30, 2016
Interesting, thank you. & No disrespect intended.

damian is gonna tell you...

Posted July 1, 2016
A better analogy for Australia would be people in Tasmania seeing their concerns constantly overridden in favour of people in NSW due to the vastly disparate number of seats in the House of Reps. Though talk of Tasmanian secession has only ever been raised as a joke in my living memory.

Of course here, the federal system has a balance for that in that Tasmania (pop 500k) and NSW (pop 7.5mill) get the same number of senators. The Council of Europe is supposed to be the equivalent but doesn't provide the same kind of balance. European Parliament does have the population based proportionality of a House of Reps (though it's proportional within constituencies made up of member states) but not in the Council.

The US version of your analogy would better reflect hte situation if you put it the other way around - that Costa Rica (not quite a state yet but no longer quite not one, eh?), Hawaii and Alaska have their concerns overriden by California or New York State.

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Guy swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted June 30, 2016
Hi Lulu - no we're not part of Schengen, thank goodness. I was saying that it's one of the main things wrong with the EU. It has been hailed as "the greatest triumph of the European project" recently by the Commission President, but it's been a disaster in practice. Actually it's mostly suspended at the moment as more than a million refugees were using it to reach Germany, France and Holland. The Leave campaign was strongly advocating an Australian-style points system.

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Respond to 'Brexit'

Berning down the House

Posted February 10, 2016 into Politics by John Birmingham

It's not exactly interesting that the two candidates who inspire the most fervant followings are at the extremes of the US primaries. Things are naturally a little gnarlier out there on the fringes. What's interesting about Trump and the Bern is not the energy, but the mass. Their followings are not fringe-sized. They're what groovy 60's political scientists used to call 'mass publics'.

I liked this, bemused, slightly patronising piece in The Atlantic about Sander's youthful jihadis. I don't think it actually meant to be patronising, but there is a real 'Kids these days' feel to it.

They line up for hours to see Sanders, snow accumulating on their puffy jackets and knit caps and uncombed hair. They fill college arenas, chanting, “Ber-nie! Ber-nie!” They gather in little knots as they wait for him to appear, engaging in impromptu rap sessions about pot legalization and campaign-finance reform. They are feeling the Bern.

If Sanders wins the New Hampshire primary on Tuesday, as he is favored to do, it will be because of the youth movement he has inspired. It will be a stunning result in a state that has historically been friendly to Bill and Hillary Clinton, a dramatic overthrow of the Democratic machine by a rebellious new generation of liberals. And if nobody saw this coming, that may be because nobody was listening to what the kids were trying to tell us.

49 Responses to ‘Berning down the House’

BigWillieStyle would have you know...

Posted February 10, 2016

Meh. Our own Kevin Rudd was tuned in to the kids years before Bernie. Back in 2007, you couldn't walk down the street without tripping over a collective of groovy youths flashing their "Kevin 07" merch.

And the tweets! Remember when KR used to totally rock the Twittersphere? "Hey there Hep Cats. Just chillaxing to Lady GooGoo while wording up my homeboys." Those were the days.

pi swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted February 10, 2016
Yes, and the establishment that brought him down from his own party led to the election of Tony Abbott.

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DarrenBloomfield is gonna tell you...

Posted February 10, 2016
I read it, and didn't pick up the patronising vibe you felt, to be honest.
It'll be interesting to see where these kids go when it's election time and it's Hillary versus someone (probably Rubio). I suspect they'll stay home, and start looking for the next Bernie. Probably a female one.

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Murphy_of_Missouri ducks in to say...

Posted February 10, 2016
We are well and truly fucked.

DarrenBloomfield is gonna tell you...

Posted February 10, 2016
I dunno Murph
I bummed around Europe the (northern) summer of '92. A lot of Seppos wandering around in "Run, Ross, Run" caps and tees.
This too shall pass.

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Murphy_of_Missouri is gonna tell you...

Posted February 10, 2016
On a more serious note, my facebook feed is inundated on a regular basis by former students and lifeguard coworkers who are constantly pushing the need to, "Feel the Bern."

Dave W puts forth...

Posted February 10, 2016
On a brighter note, these people have self-identified for de-friending, making the whole process very easy for you.

Murphy_of_Missouri mutters...

Posted February 11, 2016
I prefer not to do that, given that more than a few were my better students. Unlike some in academia and science fiction, I don't feel that it is my job to indoctrinate them when they are in my classroom. If I unfriend them for merely holding a different point of view, well, I don't think that reflects well on me, or what I tried to teach them.

FormerlyKnownAsSimon would have you know...

Posted February 11, 2016
Social media is no place for reasoned thought. How dare you take such a position! : )

Dave W has opinions thus...

Posted February 11, 2016
Yeah, I was seeing this as the perfect opportunity to make a snap-judgement on whether some of these people are worthy of being your 'friend'. Reasoned thought be damned!
I do this all the time. Share a picture of a butterfly exhorting me to remember that angels are real. Defriended. It's not personal, it's just about whether what I have now learned about someone continues to qualify them for my friendship.

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Blarkon is gonna tell you...

Posted February 10, 2016
Went to one of his rallies when I was in Portlandia last year. Very little that he proposed was different to what Australians generally have already - it's just that the US is very different to Oz, so things like our health system and HECS are frightening and alien to an American audience.

Murphy_of_Missouri reckons...

Posted February 11, 2016
Obviously never visited a Department of Veterans Affairs hospital or any given military medical facility. When you do, get back with me on some notes per compare and contrast with the Aussie system.

dweeze mutters...

Posted February 11, 2016
That's all well and good if you are a Vet. Methinks the scaly one referred to public health care which, while far from perfect in Oz, is infintely more accessable to all than in the US. Besides, I've heard a few tales from US Vets not too enamoured of DVA's / beauraucro-bloat.
HECS only frightened me when I finally earnt enough to have to pay it off and it was mere peanuts compared to the size of current courses / student debt in either country.

Murphy_of_Missouri has opinions thus...

Posted February 11, 2016
You honestly think that any government run health system in the United States will operate any differently than the ones it currently operates?


dweeze is gonna tell you...

Posted February 11, 2016
Ahah - I think we got got our wires crossed there. Yes, US DVA care would seem to be pretty crap.
I was more referring to punters being refused (or downgraded) public hospital admission / treatment without insurance. For all of the faults in Oz public health, anyone can present to a hospital and get treated. Of course, those with the $$$ (read: expensive private health insurance), can always get better treatment at a private hospital.
Either way, you guys are stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to your gummintal leadership options.

Murphy_of_Missouri swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted February 11, 2016
Truth.

Rhino has opinions thus...

Posted February 13, 2016
Hospitals/Emergency rooms will not turn someone away for lack of insurance. It is the law.
For this reason, many uninsured/undocumented use the hospital system for things for which the insured use GPs.

NBlob swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted February 13, 2016
Mr Rhino sir. I understand that there is Duty of Care which obliges hospitals to treat the needy. However, under your user pays system, one can find oneself with a debt bigger than Fuji San.

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Lobes reckons...

Posted February 10, 2016
ive got $50 on Bernie to win the general election at 40/1, thats a payout of $2000, fuck yeh feel the bern babieeee

I luv capitalism

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Babes would have you know...

Posted February 11, 2016
We have definitely been feeling the Bern in our house, and we are not even that young! The extremists are taking control because the establishment stinks on both sides. Voter turnout was record-breaking in both Iowa and New Hampshire because people who never felt motivated to vote are feeling like someone cares about them for a change. As terrifying as Trump's rise is, he is feeding into (or on) a lot of scared, put upon people who (rightly) feel like a Bush or a Cruz or a Rubio does not have their back (neither does Trump, but I digress). I found this analysis of the Sanders/Clinton contest pretty interesting: http://benjaminstudebaker.com/2016/02/05/why-bernie-vs-hillary-matters-more-than-people-think/

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan has opinions thus...

Posted February 11, 2016
The extremists are taking control because the establishment stinks on both sides.

You
are absolutely correct about the reasons for what we are seeing - i.e., mass anger at the political party elite. We are
watching one of the self-correcting mechanisms of American politics in
operation.

Power corrupts and tends to concentrate in fewer and
fewer people. The concentration of power causes empowered and
therefore privileged groups to increasingly benefit at the inevitable
detriment of the larger groups that do not have the power to influence the
political/economic system to their advantage.

This has happened
since the beginning. The result is always a peasant uprising that
doesn't do much of anything substantive, or actual revolution that upends
the system but does nothing more than place a new group in power, and
the whole cycle happens again.

Not here. Our founders very
wisely recognized the evils of concentrating power and the benefits of
disbursing power. Two, sometimes three, political parties are the
gateway to the manipulation of government for private gain. Power
concentrates, of course, and all political parties become the running
dogs of the 1%. And we accept that, so long as the political elite
provide enough benefits to the rank and file.

Eventually, the
concentration of power causes political parties to become less and less effective at being the means of providing benefits to party members.
And when a tipping point of popular frustration takes place, little
admirably non violent revolutions take place resulting in reform or
the end of one party, replaced by another. Our political system is
designed for little, non violent revolutions every now and then (from my
perspective, the American labor and civil rights movements were non
violent revolutions).

That's what we are watching take place right now.
From my viewpoint the really important, most fascinating question is
whether the Democratic and/or the Republican Parties will survive, or will they join the Federalist, the Democratic-Republicans, the Anti-Masonics, the Whigs and the Free Soil parties in the trash bin of history.

My
bet is the DNC will reform sufficiently to continue to exist, but the
rise of Donald Trump means the end of the RNC.

One last comment:
neither Trump nor Sanders are extremists. Sanders is a moderate
socialist. Trump is an outsider who is attempting a hostile takeover of
the GOP.

Babes swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted February 11, 2016
I agree they aren't extremists, only in comparison to their parties, which again, stink. I totally agree with your assessment that the RNC needs to take a dirt nap and the DNC will likely squeak by. After all, Sanders is actually trying to reform the DNC whereas I think Trump is, as you suggest, trying to end the RNC.

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan mutters...

Posted February 11, 2016
Trump isn't trying to end the RNC. He is trying to ride an insane clown car for as long as he can hold on. For him this is inexpensive fun with no downside no matter how it finishes. He would prefer the RNC remain intact for his use.

Trumps involvement spells the end of the RNC for other reasons. His continuing rise from not only outside of the GOP - but in opposition to it - means the RNC cannot control its base for the purposes of national elections. The vast majority of those who the RNC need to control in order to project political power are following an outsider and have, essentially, formed a new, separate political party. After this election, those RNC/GOP loyalists still standing will devolve into a "rump" political party.

The longer Trump lasts, the more the RNC fractures, spelling the end of the GOP.

Barnesm would have you know...

Posted February 11, 2016
a peasant uprising, like a jacquerie? does that mean French pastries are involved - I'm in.

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Rob would have you know...

Posted February 11, 2016

I think the one thing that Sanders does that's different from everyone else, is he actually has policies. And he has beliefs. So he's making promises that are costed ( or costly depending on which side of wall street you live on) His appeal is to the proletariat , Americans might have finally accepted that they aren't going to get to the top by blind adherence to the American dream and hard work. Americans work hard and some work hard for no reward at all. But his policies are mostly like Australian policies, a regulated industrial relations system, an Australian Medicare system, regulated banks.

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w from brisbane is gonna tell you...

Posted February 11, 2016
PNB, what about Michael Bloomberg? Is he serious? What would be the impact of his candidacy?

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan is gonna tell you...

Posted February 11, 2016
Yes, he is serious (as serious as a billionaire can be about spending money to enter what amounts to a beauty contest).

Cannot yet assess the impact of Bloomberg actually doing it.

Babes has opinions thus...

Posted February 11, 2016
I really hope he doesn't run, but he probably will, given that he is a very, very rich person who has gotten an idea. Also, I think that Bernie will do better than expected in the states that will hold primaries before his self-imposed deadline to run.
It would certainly be even more interesting than it's been already--Sanders would get the chance to be David vs. Goliath(s), with real life examples to portray his message about what an oligarchy US politics have become and how he wants to return the power back to the 99%. (And Americans love a good underdog, not to mention Bible metaphors, so I really think he could pull it off).

Lulu swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted February 11, 2016
"(And Americans love a good underdog, not to mention Bible metaphors, so I really think he could pull it off)."

I disagree. Seems like a nice guy, good ideas etc, but I don't think he'd meet the electability test.

Babes asserts...

Posted February 11, 2016
I guess we'll see...he continues to outperform Hillary in all the polls against Republicans and Hillary just got fewer votes in NH than when she won it in 2008. He just raised $6.4 mil in 24 hours in individual donations that averaged $34. I'd personally kind of like to see more proof that Hillary is electable.

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Grand Admiral Thrawn reckons...

Posted February 11, 2016
i hope America can be spared for the scourge that is socialism. i live in Manitoba Canada, we have had a socialist party(the NDP) in charge my province for a long time. we now have a huge debt, crappy infrastructure, bloated bureaucracy, our public health has the longest wait times in the country and the taxes keep going up to pay for social programs that are inefficient and constantly cheated.,i really hope that it can be avoided in America, good luck you'll need it if sanders is elected.

Murphy_of_Missouri puts forth...

Posted February 11, 2016
Again, check out any given Veteran's Hospital if you want to know what universal health care in this country will look like.

Barnesm is gonna tell you...

Posted February 11, 2016
one data point doesn't make a proof.

Babes mutters...

Posted February 11, 2016
Murph, my dad raised us saying the same thing about the "socialized" health care he received in the military. He also insisted that we already have universal healthcare because no one can be denied treatment at a hospital! If it's horrible no one will stand for it and we can always revert back, but sitting stubbornly on a shitty system will never make it better.

Murphy_of_Missouri would have you know...

Posted February 11, 2016
Barnes, honestly?

How many stories do you need? Why don't you just google Agent Orange. I'll wait. You'll have your avalanche of data points.

Babes swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted February 12, 2016
Oh, funny, I thought Barnes was referring to the comprehensive international list compiled by the World Health Organization that I posted as one data point.
I would actually be totally shocked if Sanders, even if he could get elected, were able to succeed in taking people's private healthcare away from them. Doesn't he know how well-armed the people here are? (And I mean, three years ago I had a 9 cm ovarian cyst removed for $30.00 so it works just fine for me!)
I think the best solution would actually be getting an expanded ACA in place that covers EVERYONE not covered by their employers, not employed, not covered through spouses or parents, etc. Which I think is exactly what Hillary wants, anyway. My problem with her is that she's compromising even before she sits at the table. The greater your starting demands, the more you're going to get.

Babes ducks in to say...

Posted February 12, 2016
Oh, and states can opt out of ACA without offering any alternative, which is so wrong! My sister needs it and would qualify, but SD opted out so she's paying $300/month for private insurance on a waitress's salary.

Adam Denny puts forth...

Posted March 23, 2016
In San Francisco, the ACA has left MediCal for me anyway, pretty much the rough equivalent of being back in Australia with a Medicare Card. I am fully aware how lucky I am, that there are vast chunks of the country where the Republicans have ignored the ACA, and I would still have no access to healthcare. Here I do though, and sorry Murph, I know the Vet system is terrible and you blokes who served deserve better. I'm just saying my experience of public healthcare here thanks to Obama is almost no different to back in Australia.

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Mark R, Whittington has opinions thus...

Posted February 11, 2016
I am old enough to have seen this movie before, with the role of Bernie Sanders being played by George McGovern. Sanders will suffer a similar fate.

Trump, on the other hand, frightens me.

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan mutters...

Posted February 11, 2016
That's because you are a loser. Just ask Trump.

Murphy_of_Missouri has opinions thus...

Posted February 11, 2016
Trump, the demagogue the Founders worried about.
Reminds me of Huey Long.

Babes would have you know...

Posted February 12, 2016
I just endured a piece on Slate basically saying, "If you don't understand Clinton's appeal, then you don't understand the complacency that comes with middle age. Vote for Clinton." ! What successful or transformative political movement was ever dominated by people over 40? In NH, Clinton only won among people over 65 or making over $200k, and even then only by a little. Saying, "I've given up, and so should you" is never a good rallying cry. ;-P

Lulu has opinions thus...

Posted February 12, 2016
oh god not again. And I didn't even copy/paste. Please delete that, thanks.

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan would have you know...

Posted February 12, 2016
Done. If you first paste something you intend on using in a comment into a text only document, it will automatically strip the content of the coding stuff you don't want. Then you can copy it again and paste it without all that junk showing up.

GhostSwirv puts forth...

Posted February 12, 2016
Did you just teach us all something useful?

I fear that there is going to be an inevitable, unexpected and significantly soul-destroying cost.


Paul_Nicholas_Boylan has opinions thus...

Posted February 12, 2016
It is people like you that keep people like me from having any fun.

GhostSwirv is gonna tell you...

Posted February 12, 2016

Its people like me who follow people like you's advice and then end up not stripping the content of coding stuff that I don't want!

In the interest of fun ... please sir explain the process of adding a weblink to this blog ... its FebFast and I have a right kidney that's not been too overworked these past 13 days that I'm to trade to a good home.

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Mark R, Whittington puts forth...

Posted February 11, 2016
I could only wish I could be publicly denounced by the Donald. It would put me in an eclectic group of people.

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