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Twitter is exhausting

Posted November 4, 2014 into House keeping by John Birmingham

Eron Gjoni, the guy whose post about his ex-girlfriend helped fan the GamerGate firestorm contacted me on twitter last night. Asking for my email so we could discuss the flaws and inaccuracies in my column on Saturday, and my inevitable retractions.

Anyone who's hung around here long enough knows I have no problems correcting my own errors and apologizing for them. I don't have plans to make any corrections to the GamerGate piece, although I might publish a par this weekend with Eron's denial's, rebuttals, whatevs.

I @replied to him, even though I routinely ignore most GamerGate approaches at Twitter because mostly they're (1) empty abuse, and (2) utterly pointless.

I was fascinated to talk to him because he's such a pivotal figure in this latest flare up and I'd read he had some regrets about the consequences of his original post, if not the post itself. I won't insult him by psychoanalysing him here. That wasn't the purpose of this post.

I instead wanted to reflect briefly on an incident that played out (and god help me is still playing out) in my timeline during the exchange with Gjoni. Early on in the exchange, when he was still pretty fired up but showing some signs of being able to talk reasonably, another user jumped in and gave him a serve. I quickly replied asking her to dial it down, although looking at my tweet now I can see I just said "Dial it down, Ann", which looks like an order. Very poor choice of phrasing, JB.

Well, you can imagine what I woke up to this morning.

That's why this piece in The Atlantic resonated with me. Robinson Meyer nails it. Not Gamergate, but the exhaustion of Gamergate. The exhaustion of all online echanges these days. Gamergate, writes Meyer, "is an enervating army that makes itself known as soon as the “#Gamergate” hashtag is tweeted. It’s an attentional brushfire that, even when it’s not being discussed, could flare up at any time. It’s a source of exhaustion even before it has done anything to exhaust."

He goes on to explain why this is an existential crisis for Twitter, but to me it looks like a... well, maybe not anything as immediate as a crisis, but it looks like a deep rooted systemic flaw in the very structure of online communications. Flame war seems to be the default setting now, although maybe it always was. I remember talking Murph out of his ennervating battles with online foes at various sci-fi forums, and we've all learned to skim over the worst, if not most, of the comments at places like Blunty, assuming anyone but the trolls reads them these days.

Meyer asks:

Is living such a public life worth the trouble? Is such a life worth being constantly exposed to vitriol and rage and threats from strangers—especially when the patterns of that abuse seem so random? Is the kind of work that would be required to sustain a “good” public, online social network possible? Is asking people to perform that moderating work something we even want to do?

No it's not. Not really. But I've decided that everyone who has the ability to nuke trolls out of the comments here will be holding onto it for a while yet. Probably forever and I'll probably be extending the power to even more of you.

56 Responses to ‘Twitter is exhausting’

beeso ducks in to say...

Posted November 4, 2014
Planet parenthood being what it is for me these days I am usually pretty tired by day's end. I usually wind down checking the social media for twenty or so. I've been struggling to get to sleep easily so this week I am trying 15 min of yoga instead of the screen time. Had an awesome nights sleep straight away (230 am sick kid wake up aside)

I also find the gamer gate stuff abhorrent and also a lot of stupid stuff being said on the good guys (girls?) side as well. Be nice if people weren't dicks but seems that's a pipe dream.

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Halwes ducks in to say...

Posted November 4, 2014
Interesting stuff although something I will never experience first hand. Do any of these people realise that most people in the world are poverty stricken? Have many of them even travelled? What kind of person even has the time in their lives to engage in this sort of crap? Certainly not many manual workers that I know. So what are the twitterers saying is going to win the cup today? My tip each way is Mutual Regard with a saver on Protectionist. Lets say Mutual Regard, Lucia Valentina, Protectionist and the jap thing ( what about the war?) Admire Rakti for a first four. Anyone else?

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Chaz has opinions thus...

Posted November 4, 2014
Sign Off and Fawkner

Miss Maudy would have you know...

Posted November 4, 2014
$2 each way on Signoff because - well finally signed off on a tender after three months of epic toil. Seemed like an omen.

Halwes mumbles...

Posted November 4, 2014

I officially love you two. I very reluctantly put signoff into my first 4 on your say so and cracked it for a $10k payday. I think I might be starting to get the hang of this social media stuff!

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Fedup Peanut ducks in to say...

Posted November 4, 2014
I do not envy your twitter timeline at all (so many fkn muppets), and noticed that the SMH moderator's head must have exploded within the first couple of hours of publishing: 47 comments made it through.

Been on twitter since ought-6 (spit), and I ain't never had to block a fool. But as soon as this here shytefest kicked into high gear, I've been blocking and muting like a berserker.

A similar puzzle is plaguing politics: How can you have any kind of meaningful engagement with an opponent who doesn't compromise? Negotiation becomes impossible when there's no give and take, no willingness or capability to change.


John Birmingham would have you know...

Posted November 4, 2014
Peanut, it's just durn foolishness is all.

Fedup Peanut mumbles...

Posted November 4, 2014
Ah-yep. (spit)

I cannot begin to fathom just how horrifying and awful online life must be for the women who become targets. It's just unimaginable.

And it's not just for days or weeks or even months - some of them have been dealing with a hatenado for years.

That that sort of toxic atmosphere is considered a normal level of "background" hate boggles me.

For Bob's sake, "gamers" have been trying for decades to convince people we're as sane, safe and balanced as any other random meatsack, and here we are in 2014 and it's almost bloody possible to say that "We're all Gamers now", games are being regarded as 'legitimate' art, demographics have changed for the better and then there's this explosion of reactionary arsehattery, and 30+ years of "hey, we're just as normal and mature as you, let's play" gets flushed down the shitter.


Barnesm puts forth...

Posted November 4, 2014
"hatenado" please don't give SyFy ideas.

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Spanner ducks in to say...

Posted November 4, 2014
There was a good article on *shudders Gamergate and the polarisation of people based on their political ideology. Can't find the link but the basic premise was that it's now just another front on the progressive V conservative culture war.

Halwes mutters...

Posted November 4, 2014

I get this but, coming from a rugby league / trade union / activist background, I learnt pretty early that, if you don't hate them, you can't beat them. You can be pretty sure that they hate you and so, once you realise that, it's much easier to hate them back. I still don't understand how twittering can ever change anything. Only up front, confrontational, blood on the floor, here I am, try and hit me tactics have ever worked for me. At least, if you get beat, you know in your heart that you had a fair dinkum go. Unlike firing off a pissweak tweet.

bhutos would have you know...

Posted November 15, 2014
I'm pretty sure it's this one: <font color="#292f33" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="5">http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/25/gamergate-an-issue-with-2-sides/</font>
<font color="#292f33" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="5">Which I found was very illuminating. We don't often hear that both sides are sending death threats and doxxing. I'm a green voting lefty dictionary feminist but in this issue it really does look like assholes on both sides ruining things for everyone, including the two original sparks both being assholes in their own ways starting the whole thing off. I was also disappointed with JB's SMH column given his research ability - I mean reading Leviathan I was constantly in awe of the depth of subject knowledge (even Axis of Time re: military hardware and so on) - and he was right that it's not just about journalism but it just seemed needlessly pejorative and non contextual. </font>
<font color="#292f33" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="5">Given how even trying to not scare away/embitter/taint a pivotal source on his twitter feed is immediately twisted into JB protecting Eron "like 4chan" and his failings as a feminist you'd think there would be sympathy with vast swathes of people on both sides having their positions and statements looked at in the least charitable light possible and guilt by association. I guess. Not that i can say I'm any more unbiased or correct on the matter than anyone else. *shrugs*.</font>

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HAVOCK21 has opinions thus...

Posted November 4, 2014
WTF. I'm fkn progressive in my fkn CONSERVATIVE fkn values.

FROM ORBIT JB and ya gettem fkn all.

As for negotiation, best done from the barrel of the bigger fkn gun!. FK coming second! I say!.

Keep me in me zen fkn space. NOW. I'm finally off ta see fkn FURY at 1.20pm. GUNNA FKN GET SOME BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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pi would have you know...

Posted November 4, 2014
I have no idea what gamergate actually is. Looks like I'm missing out.

HAVOCK21 mutters...

Posted November 4, 2014
not the be all, but interesting. Try here.

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/6/6111065/gamergate-explained-everybody-fighting

pi ducks in to say...

Posted November 8, 2014
oh lordy...

So much drama.

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Therbs reckons...

Posted November 4, 2014
I too have avoided the clusterfuck that is gamergate. I just assumed it was a bunch of teen and preteen boys playing with their dicks and whining about girl germs. I'm still to be proven wrong.

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan ducks in to say...

Posted November 4, 2014
I again feel alienated from these discussions. I don't know what gamergate is. I now question the relevance of my personal reality.

Murphy mutters...

Posted November 4, 2014
Paul, most of us don't know.

I know I don't know.

Darth Greybeard is gonna tell you...

Posted November 4, 2014
Very true. I too have no idea if Paul's personal reality is relevant.

Barnesm is gonna tell you...

Posted November 4, 2014
I liked the coverage on Colbert Report on gamergate, amusing and put those in the gamergate camp in a tis.

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Murphy asserts...

Posted November 4, 2014
I figured out that if I was constantly at war with people who I thought were a problem then I wasn't getting any writing done. When I look back on reasons why I haven't sold anything else since 2008, surely part of it has to be the sheer energy that was poured into hammering away at people I disagreed with. I suspect that was masking for other problems in my life that had nothing to do with writing or science fiction, not that it matters what the cause was.

So I generally do not waste effort on it these days. There are other things to do and if someone really gets to be a pain, I just edit them out of my newsfeeds.

Which is a lot easier than hammering away at them.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

bhutos swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted November 15, 2014
So. Much. This.
Imagine being the sort of idiot who stumbles onto a chain of links and finds himself commenting on a stale thread over a week old because he's at work on a Saturday and should be getting ahead creating and bringing new things into the world instead of consuming pointless drama ;)

Darth Greybeard is gonna tell you...

Posted November 15, 2014
Wow. That's the saddest thing I've ever heard. Good thing we all do it.

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Murphy ducks in to say...

Posted November 4, 2014
On a practical note, why is it wrong to tell Ann to knock it off on your newsfeed? If you are trying to talk to the guy and she is piling on then as far as I'm concerned you be well within your right to say, "Hey, can you take it down a notch so I can see what is up with this guy?"

Twitter newsfeeds, like their facebook counterparts, and blogs before them, are our respective living rooms in our online apartment, or a parlor where guests should behave accordingly. If I got a couple of people getting out of line on my fb then I have no qualms about asking them to take it down a notch. If that doesn't work then I tell them to knock it off. Failure to do that? Well, there is the unfriend and block button.

I'm just not going to waste any time on such nonsense anymore.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

Fedup Peanut has opinions thus...

Posted November 4, 2014
My tuppence: Not "wrong" per se, and I can see where the problem may have been the way it was said; a world of difference between asking someone to chill out and telling/ordering (whatever term you want to use for the imperative) someone to chill out.

Especially with a figure like Gjoni involved in the conversation, given the charged atmosphere. People are going to be angry, so appearing to dismiss their anger by 'ordering' someone to chill is probably just going to piss them off more.

Even if that wasn't the intent. Bloody people and their messy thinky head-meats, and stupid imprecise mouth-meat noises.

Abe Frellman mumbles...

Posted November 4, 2014
I thought she was out of line butting in to your conversation, but agree that it is the *telling* her to do something that has seemingly fired her up. That said, her blog entry accuses you of defending or protecting Gjoni (I read it at lunchtime and can't be arsed re-reading it to check which one) which I thought came across as confected outrage on her part.

But I doubt that the link to the Atlantic article will cause her to see your side JB.... In my experience once people resort to confecting outrage they are pretty difficult to turn round. I suspect you may not give a hoot, and other than being misconstrued, which can't be fun for a decent man who makes a living from writing, tbh I don't think you should.

damian swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted November 4, 2014
Yeah what Birmo said - it wasn't the intent, it was the execution. Agree it may have been a poor choice of words and may have had the opposite intended effect, and escalated rather than de-escalated. Can't say I haven't been there and worse myself. Usually you expect people who are "on your side" to take that stuff as it's meant rather than as it comes across. But it almost never works that way :/

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Darth Greybeard mutters...

Posted November 4, 2014
Yeah but seriously, social media can be exhausting. Mutual interests mean that I mostly interact with sick, twisted, sarcastic, decent, compassionate, moderately intelligent people who put science before profit or superstition. That's fun and all, but you don't exactly hear every side of the story. So you look around outside your little circle and get swamped by a mass of uglies. I know that assumes I'm right and they're wrong so I'll give one (1) example. When Brittany Maynard died peacefully, rather than waiting for her painful cancer to do it, comments included "I hope it was really painful" "She's Dammed (sic) to hell for going against the word of G*D." And so on and on and on.

When I read that stuff, and I know I shouldn't, it does indeed exhaust me. I have little faith in the survival of humanity or our civilisation. And more and more I doubt that either deserves to.

damian swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted November 4, 2014
I like to think I've lost patience and don't like to suffer fools and all that. But then I realise how deeply foolish I am myself and that I think it's vitally important to continue to act the fool on occasion, sometimes more frequently. Then you think of the holy fools, the fools who rush in where angels fear to tread and how the brightest people you know will gibber helplessly while lesser thinkers who are aggressive with their opinions drive their limited understanding with a confidence that prevails and they seem to own our world.

But there's a lot of stuff I really have no patience for. I've been talking about that a bit lately. Not claiming to be consistent here, though I would go further and insist that consistency isn't compatible with experience.

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Rob ducks in to say...

Posted November 4, 2014
I was surprised to see on my YouTube channel that people go nuts at each other in the comments section. I was really surprised it happened on a Butthole Surfers video. Most people just thank me for posting. Others though spend their days and nights discrediting each others drug experiences.
'My acid fueled nightmare was greater and more real than yours man.'

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damian swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted November 4, 2014
Gah, I made the mistake of reading the comments on that Atlantic article. Those guys really like to prove the point they're trying to contradict, don't they?

Barnesm ducks in to say...

Posted November 4, 2014
it is a truism that any comments in a discussion involving what many interpret as feminist issues proves the need for feminism.

Lulu mutters...

Posted November 5, 2014
x 1000, barnesm.

pi has opinions thus...

Posted November 8, 2014
Shamelessly stealing that.

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Matthew F. swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted November 4, 2014
"Sea-lioning" is the hip new verb for this stuff.

http://wondermark.com/1k62/

(One small silver lining to the whole shitblizzard is that it's given us some awesome webcomics.)

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Blarkon swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted November 5, 2014
Because rage fires up the endorphins. Twitter is perhaps the most effective form of media we've developed for firing up rage. It beats talk radio by a mile.

The other thing that social media does (and twitter does wonderfully) is that it tends to polarize opinion quickly. There's a heap of research showing that if you hang around people who share a general philosophical bent, you all end up more extreme in your beliefs than if you were hanging around people with a multitude of views.

There's even been some evidence that some quite clever trolls have used this to push groups into more extreme positions - by confecting identities that promote a more extreme view than the group currently holds - and then watching the group reorient itself to a more extreme position. Often the most influential in a group are those that are seen as "most doctrinaire" - so introducing someone more extremely doctrinaire to a group, especially given the fluid dynamics of social media groups, means a new scramble for existing members to retain influence by becoming even more doctrinal than they may have been originally.

As someone suggested - Social Media is the ultimate Milgram Experiment.

w from brisbane ducks in to say...

Posted November 5, 2014
There was also a study that showed that people who strongly hold a particular view of a policy issue, when confronted with facts that clearly disprove that view, move fairly automatically to a more extreme support of their original opinion.

Shows the futility and counter-productiveness of getting in some online argument and googling up various 'facts' and thinking you will win and make them agree with you. Even if you 'win' the facts war, they will actually end up being more opposed to your view than before the argument started.

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Don mumbles...

Posted November 5, 2014
For all the wide-eyed wonderment of the 90s and the hopes that the internet was going to be a new-world of connections between people, knowledge and events, there's a chunk of people who take a look at this great alien world, take a deep breath of exotic air and start unbuckling their pants immediately.

"I'm gonna be the first person to ever take a shit in this pristine stream."
"Nobody else has had sex with ona them lizard-sheep thingies before."
"Yeehaw! I'm a pioneer!"
Some of us were just trying to enjoy the view when it got shit and dicks on it.

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Dokter mumbles...

Posted November 5, 2014
What I've learnt from being online since 1997 is that it's best to move on. Majority of people, online especially, that disagree with someone has no interest in changing their mind. All they want to do is to shout louder and louder until you give in and say they are right and you are wrong.

This comic from XKCD sums it up perfectly why online battles gets so out of hand and lasts for ad infinitum.

https://xkcd.com/386/

Also, if you decide to engage with trolls or whatever, keep this in mind too:

He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.
— Nietzsche

Too often I've witnessed people that I thought were rather reasonable turn into the worst monster (troll). Which is why it's also wise to follow the very simple rule, don't feed the trolls.

So in reality, you'll never take down a troll. You'll just end up becoming one yourself.

John Birmingham mumbles...

Posted November 5, 2014
Wow! That was an xkcd joke? I had no idea.

Blarkon would have you know...

Posted November 5, 2014
There's also the joke about wrestling pigs in mud being similar to arguing with engineers that's appropriate - which is that after a few hours you come to the realization that the pig is loving it.

Matthew F. asserts...

Posted November 6, 2014
My favourite is the one about playing chess against a pigeon.

pi puts forth...

Posted November 8, 2014
I know you have to be a math-head to laugh, but I found this xkcd image looking at that.

https://xkcd.com/730/

Cracked me up.

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Barnesm is gonna tell you...

Posted November 6, 2014
"Which is why it's also wise to follow the very simple rule, don't feed the trolls" which is cogent advice and I myself have followed it, but imagine if these early forays by women and minorities into gaming they had responded by not responding, or by those who were aprt of the community and didn't think it was appropriate to verbally abuse or threaten them just because they expressed a different view, or were simply not the 'traditional' gamer then we would be seeing now these, hopefully, last gasps of an exclusive previliged few whose response to change is to threaten, bully, abuse and scorn until everythign goes back to how it was when they first started playing.

Shifty Tourist is gonna tell you...

Posted November 6, 2014

I tend to agree ultimately that there is not point arguing (or feeding) the trolls, in the sense that the trolls can't be reasoned with.

But by the same token, can we allow vile crap to be asserted without confrontation. Anger and hate are infectious.... It draws people in, fires their adrenal glands, and gives them common cause.

Reason, reflection, respect.... are not quite as sexy.

Anger and hate in a vacuum will only grow unless confronted, the flaws of their red mist logic illuminated, their straw men fed to the livestock, their sacred cows slaughtered in a humane way, their axes left un-grinded, the wheels of their barrows wheel locked, their.... ok i'll stop this now.

You can never beat the trolls, but you can (I hope) stop their voices being the only one that can be heard and therefore controlling the message.

Barnesm has opinions thus...

Posted November 6, 2014

Indeed, well put ST.

Halwes mutters...

Posted November 6, 2014
Great point however I think that the way that we confront this vile crap is very important. I don't think that wasting energy confronting them on twitter is energy efficient. As well as that is the feeling that people seem to get when they fire back a clever tweet or comment. I think it's something like "there. that showed them". But it didn't do anything. That is the dangerous thing about all this. People think they are making a difference when they've done no such thing. The tweet disappears into the ether and nothing changes. They've expended the energy and nothing changes. If you want to make a difference then it has to be by face to face human contact, confrontation and eventual compromise and to be prepared to bleed.

Barnesm asserts...

Posted November 6, 2014

"People think they are making a difference when they've done no such thing"

It can be sometimes hard to know what if any difference and action makes. Even if the only action you take is to refute or reply at least that is a bit more than complicit silence.

I do agree that is a very low bar and I would wish to see more effort made, but I figure there was no guarantee that if I said to that person that they should do more, or if all I did at the time was tweet "Don't be a dick" to some egreious troll there is no assurance I would go on to do more.

Though I certainly think I should.

Lulu mumbles...

Posted November 6, 2014
There's a certain value in "confronting the vile crap" or even just saying "don't be a dick". It's unlikely to change the troll, but it might make a difference to their targets, or the bystanders. If someone is the target of whatever bigotry the trolls spew, they'll feel a little less alone knowing that not everyone agrees with the bigots.

Dick swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted November 6, 2014
I take offense to this constant reference to me in a derogatory way.

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Shifty Tourist would have you know...

Posted November 6, 2014

Yeah, I think you're right Halwes.

Has an argument on twitter, or the SMH/brisbanetimes comments section every changed anybody's mind... I doubt it.... and this is a great shame. The possibilities the internet offered to engage in rousing debate is been lost in tsunami douchebaggery. These forums are not about persuasion, but point scoring.... either by recieving the acknowledgement of the converted, or by earning the rage of the opposition.

But still, I'm hesitant to say these forums should just be abandoned to the trolls (that is if they haven't allready annexed it). These are the primary communication tools of our day and where (as JB mentioned in his Blunty on this) the easily influenced get their views on these issues. Although, its probably vain to think a well meaning person can make make any difference to that anyway.

So, yeah, what do you do. My preference midway through this shitstorm was just burning the internet to the ground and starting again from scratch.... an instinct I've had many times after reading comments following any acticle discussing political issues.

Still can't stop myself from reading though.... I'm probably not immume from enjoying a bit of an anger induced adrenaline hit.

Ramble over.

Shifty Tourist mutters...

Posted November 6, 2014
Oops, meant to be a response to the above.... failed at the internet today.

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Quokka swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted November 6, 2014
Another pig quote applies here, Mark Twain's 'Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time & it annoys the pig.'

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TheWah puts forth...

Posted November 8, 2014
I've noticed that if you dare to comment on something that is slightly emotionally charged then someone will mentally spin your initial comment into the worst, over the top version, of what you originally said and argue you based on that idea.

For example - "I prefer dogs to cats"
"WHY DO YOU HATE CATS?!?!?!?"

This is a silly version of something that happens on a regular basis.
A lot of the time I think that people are responding to the pain they feel from having their cognitive dissonance unwittingly flicked by the original comment. You write what you believe is an interesting assumption or observation and someone else takes umbrage, goes to defcon1 and nukes you before their emotional side can be overridden by their intellectual side. Nobody takes the time to think, "surely this other human being doesn't think this terrible thing. I'd better ask them to clarify". Nope.. it's straight to "SOMEONE IS INTENTIONALLY QUESTIONING MY ENTIRE REALITY IN 140 CHARACTERS.. KILL KILL KILL!"

As JB said - It's exhausting...

Darth Greybeard asserts...

Posted November 15, 2014
Yup x eleventy

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Respond to 'Twitter is exhausting'

Some Burger updates

Posted November 3, 2014 into House keeping by John Birmingham

A few minor tweaks to the old clubhouse coming up. I'll be talking to Dan later today about setting up a dedicated site to sell my books. It won't be my bookstore. Instead it'll send you off to your preferred and geographically appropriate online retailer.

I'll provide links to all the major sites, including Amazon. But for Australian online sales I'll be preferencing Booktopia.com.au. They have a very generous deal where they top up my royalty by 7.5%. My actual preference is that people get off their arses and walk down to their local independent bookshop, but that's not always possible. So I'd much prefer an Australian online bookshop get the sale rather than Amazon. Hence Booktopia. I'll investigate what deals the other chains are offering. But they'll need to match or beat that very generous top up.

Here at the Burger, the current banner ads will soon swap out for book related banners, I think Audible and A&R are among the first, but they wont become any more prominent than they are now. Dan's Civicnet banner will stay.

I want the bookshop site to be quite simple, but if anyone has particular things they'd like to see there, now is the time to lobby for them.

I've always meant to build a dedicated book site but I wanted to shake out the changes here first. When I had Dan renovate the Burger it was with a view to running it as a full time blog that could replace some of my media income. I built the traffic up to a point where I could have done just that, but it was a full time job. And I already have a full time job, writing books. I'd prefer to concentrate on that and make any online efforts supportive of the books, rather than competetive with my media work.

It won't mean radical changes here. I'll be increasing the frequency of posts as we draw close to launch day for Emergence and channeling more traffic in from Twitter. But that's about it.

15 Responses to ‘Some Burger updates’

Murphy has opinions thus...

Posted November 3, 2014
Will Americans be able to order Australian copies and have them shipped without paying half the airfare one would normally pay if they were to visit Oz?

I quite treasure the Australian copies that I have in my possession.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

John Birmingham ducks in to say...

Posted November 3, 2014
I doubt it, Murph. Freight costs are always gonna be nasty.

Therbs asserts...

Posted November 3, 2014
*psst* I may know how to do this on the very cheap

Murphy puts forth...

Posted November 3, 2014
:D

Therbs ducks in to say...

Posted November 3, 2014
Remind me when they come out and we'll get it done.

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Halwes would have you know...

Posted November 3, 2014

Great idea. There are no bookshops within cooee of here. I just used bibliograph australia to get a first edition Leviathan for $69 including freight. I haven't got it yet but it looks like it's in great condition. Really looking forward to rereading it.

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Rob mumbles...

Posted November 3, 2014
I buy my JBs from big W or Kmart. how well do they pay you? I was in dymocks today and saw a book I wanted but it was $45 , so I bought it from Book Depo for $30 as I walked down the street on my phone. Is this a bad thing? Does one big corporation deserve my sympathy over another?

John Birmingham mumbles...

Posted November 3, 2014
Rob, you buy it at the best price you can. A sale is a sale to me.

Rob puts forth...

Posted November 3, 2014
I still owe you a round for the 1penny UK Amazon buys of Leviathan and Falafel. That's about $7.50 down here.

damian asserts...

Posted November 3, 2014
I was in Townsville airport and Peter F. Hamilton's Great North Road was in the bookshop there. Huge friggin' thing, I was afraid to buy it because of what it meant carrying it onto the plane. So I bought the Amazon Kindle version on my phone while walking to the gate. Read a decent amount of it on the flight too.

ShaneAlpha mumbles...

Posted November 4, 2014
Sad to say but I have seen Angels of Vengeance on the shelves of the everything $3.00 bookshop recently.

Bangar puts forth...

Posted November 4, 2014
I still have copies of AoT 2 and 3 that I got ridiculously cheap I believe Sibeen would like a sample.

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BigWillieStyle would have you know...

Posted November 3, 2014
When I saw "Some Burger updates", I thought you must have discovered a cafe in Aspley or somewhere that sells Quintuple-Bacon Lard Deep Fried Hamburgers or something. I guess not.

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Darth Greybeard ducks in to say...

Posted November 3, 2014
Speaking of updates, I have just returned from Twitterville where I found to my utter horror and dismay that JB finally has a blue tick. What can we taunt him about now? The Man Booker? Nah, just not the same. I am sad.

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damian is gonna tell you...

Posted November 3, 2014
I spent over $200 in Avid last weekend, so not feeling that guilty about all the ebooks just now. It was mostly gifts, but a couple for home.

Seems I'm at the stage where I buy print books for other people as gifts far more often than I would for myself, though I might buy 2-3 ebooks a week at the high-water mark.

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Privacy Policy

Posted February 17, 2014 into House keeping by John Birmingham

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