Cheeseburger Gothic

Printers. Just...omfg... printers

Posted April 21, 2013 into Science and Tech by John Birmingham

On and off I've just spent the better part of a day farnarkling around with a laser printer install. A Brother HL-2270 DW. I suppose if I'd just sat my arse down for a concentrated three or four hours of frustration and shoutiness I might have wrapped it up earlier, but I had other jobs to attend to.

I've been looking for a home office printer for over a year now. Lost track of the number of cheap arse junky ink jets I've gone through and abandoned because spending a hundred bucks on ink cartridges that run out after a month of moderate use just got old. I even dropped four or five hundred on a lower mid-range Hewlett Packard all-in-one that had good reviews. It just fucking broke with a crunching sound one day. No fucking idea why.

Anyway, I've had a contract needed printing and signing. Tried to talk them into accepting a signed PDF from my iPad, which is becoming more common here in Oz, but this was an American law firm, and they were old school.

Paper, and only paper.

After one final arse raping I decided to give up on ink jets. They're a fucking scam and they hurt my bottom. Part of me longed for an antique Apple laser printer. One of the ancient models that used to retail for about five grand. But the rational part of me went to thewirecutter.com and looked up their recommended pick. The Brother 2270.

Tried buying it online, but the delivery went awry. (Reminds me I have to chase up that refund).

So, much disgruntled I drove into nearest Harvey Norman (I know, I cringe with shame to write it) and found it on sale at a steep discount. Fuck me, a lucky break.

And then the hands on fun started. The driver software on the disc was out of date. The download from the Brother site wouldn't ... er... well it just wouldn't. There was no cable, which I sort of expected. But all my spare ethernet cables seemed to be invisible to the machine. For a while I seriously considered a trip to the Apple store to buy a new retina Macbook and whatever the fucking genius said would work with it. But that was just the junky in me look for a comfort purchase.

Luckily I found an old USB 2.0 cord in my stash and that seemed to work. A few more hits on the download site shook free a working driver. I now have a cheap working monochrome laser printer.

But I do wonder whether the printer market is broken and waiting to be disrupted in the arse.

35 Responses to ‘Printers. Just...omfg... printers’

Jacques Stahl is gonna tell you...

Posted April 21, 2013

Ah, Blunty, you do know how to touch on the issues that hurt! I held off for 8 years buying another printer, I consider them a work of marketing evil. No sooner have you bought the latest model for some ridiculously cheap price than you realise the ink replacement will cost the equivalent of your mortgage payments (or latter day electricity bills), that is if they are still in the catalogue.

However, just last month I was forced by circumstance to finally relent and after a fruitless visit to Officeworks I deigned to visit the devil's lair of HN and purchased an Epson. Surprisingly, the set up went well and have manged both wireless printing and even remote printing via email.

This weekend ran out of black ink, so back to the same HN store - no stock of that model cartridge and none expected any time soon.

Back to the cellar.

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Bangar puts forth...

Posted April 21, 2013

Laser is the only way to go, my HP 1020 is still ticking away nicely, with a spare cartridge ready to go. I thought it'd be Apple all the way JB you should know Apple doesn't play well with others ;)

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John Birmingham mutters...

Posted April 21, 2013

AFAIK there are no Apple printers anymore.

MickH is gonna tell you...

Posted April 21, 2013

The last apple printer I had was a dot matrix jobby with the perferated paper. It used to scare the cat and wake the baby when ever we fired it up. (we had to put coal in a little shute on the side) :)

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MickH would have you know...

Posted April 21, 2013

How come you're not at supernova?

:D

John Birmingham asserts...

Posted April 21, 2013

You assume I have a life.

MickH mumbles...

Posted April 21, 2013

Oh Sorry.

:)

I've just recently got one so I thought of thought so did everyone else.

Me and the Mrs just spent a glorious afternoon in gold class watching Oblivion

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MickH swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted April 21, 2013

I've got a HP office jet all in one. sounds like yours. Its working fine at the moment.

I've also got a samsung colour laser which needs a new dum thingy and an old zerox (wow was it ever fun to find a windows 8 driver for that!) that needs new toner. I was going to look at an $80 mono laser from Office works this week.

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tqft would have you know...

Posted April 21, 2013

Fuck Lexmark.

After the old canon printer died (and I mean old - 2nd hand to me in 2000) 2 years ago. I got a Lexmark ink jet. Work for 3 months (about 5 photos). Dead weight useless piece of crap with stupid machine consuming drivers. Printer head error. The bug is still open with them - they admit the problem but done nothing (why they have the money).

I hate printers. While the data is in the machine it is just some applied quantum field theory and all is happy. Try and actualize it - pzzzzt. Always have hated printers (but like books).

Anyone want to buy me a printer and install it for me? Will pay in bitcoins.

MickH reckons...

Posted April 21, 2013

yeah,

went down the lexmark path there for a while too. Found it was cheaper to replace the whole machine than buy the cartridges. what a waste of resources.

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Blarkon is gonna tell you...

Posted April 21, 2013

Microsoft Surface. Connected to my home Wifi. Said "find printer". Finds printer. Automatically goes out to the Internet and downloads and installs printer. Setup time - about 5 seconds.

That's the way it works on Windows 8 now. For all the crap it's gotten in the press - Microsoft hosts Windows 8 printer drivers for printers in the cloud - which means no more using disks or downloading software from the vendor's website. The vendor just sends them to Microsoft and updates them when necessary.

Apple should do the same thing. Detect device & automatically retrieve driver from the Internet.

It's not that printers need disrupting. It's that you need to have a word to your mate Tim Cook.

Could be worse. Could be trying to set up a printer under Android.

MickH has opinions thus...

Posted April 21, 2013

Almost bought the surface, till we found it ran some aborted shrunken down version of windows 8. We boght a samsung instead that has the full version.

I have windows 8 on the main PC as well now. I should put your claim to the test, I have a Xerox laser printer that was a bitch to set up on windows 7 (I see no real difference between the 2 operating systems) So I will connect it up and see if it will 'find printer'

Blarkon mutters...

Posted April 22, 2013

MSFT has done a poor job explaining RT versus 8. In a nutshell, RT is 8 on another processor architecture. Like Windows Server 200x on Itanium - same Windows - but you need software written for the processor architecture.

The reason for RT is that System On Chip (SOC) is a likely path for future laptops/tablets. The new software runs on x86, x64 and the SOC architectures - so the aim with Surface (and other RT computers) is an port of Windows 8 to a different architecture that supports low power, long battery life scenarios.

MS ported Office across - but the long term strategy is using the Windows Store as the primary method of application distribution (like Apple does with the App Store and Google does with Google Play) - but that RT picks up the benefit of all those people targeting Windows 8 desktops (which for all the jokes about Windows 8 - after 6 months, is around 4-5% of the OS market - put another way - after 6 months Windows 8 is around 40% of Apple's total market share)

There are a lot of differences in Windows 8 under the hood and a lot of enterprise type features that are probably of interest only to larger organizations. Unfortunately Sinofsky's messaging on Windows 8 was "Consumers Consumers Consumers" (the usual approach is to sell the advantages to IT Pros - so there is a bit of IT pro resentment about the fact that the usual way of selling the new desktop OS was bypassed). You'll note that Sinofsky and Microsoft have parted ways and that the public noise around "Blue" revisions to Windows 8 are focused more on the "lets explain why you want your big company to use this OS" approach.

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Matthew mumbles...

Posted April 21, 2013

You shouldn't ever buy a printer that can only plug into a PC. Buy a network one (with wireless if you swing that way) and just use the LAN printing baked into OSX. Think of it as "AirPrint".

TC mumbles...

Posted April 21, 2013

Any clues as to whether you can get a non-AirPrint printer to work with an iPad? Fuck I hate printers.

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TC ducks in to say...

Posted April 21, 2013

I fucking hate printers. If it was feasible I'd never own one and only print through... whatever printing shops exist. But it's always 2am when you just need to print one page and nothing's open.

That said, I bought a Brother all-in-one in the US for about $100 that lasted 18 months with no hassles, printed beautiful photos, had a copy feed that worked perfecty and never had an issue. Should have brought it home... they probably cost about a million dollars here.

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damian reckons...

Posted April 21, 2013

Printers are usually the easy bit - but then I probably wouldn't ever buy a Brother with my own money. HP and Epson (the latter only for inkjets) ARE the printer market. If you are after a high-end multifunction centre (ie, a photocopier that also acts as network printer), then Ricoh might be acceptable. And in any case, a laser printer should be on the network and handle PostScript (or HPs PCL, but only for older Windows with buggy PS drivers... otherwise PS is better).

Lulu would have you know...

Posted April 22, 2013

We got a Ricoh at work recently. Using it looks more complicated than launching a space shuttle, so for my simple printing needs I'm sticking with one of the HP printers at the moment.

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Darth Greybeard ducks in to say...

Posted April 21, 2013

Daughter bought a Brother HL-2135W three days ago. I used a USB cable for initial setup, connected it to the router, now prints wirelessly from pretty much anything anywhere. Took about 10 min. Also got the beardless youth selling it to knock off $10. Some of us just got the power.

I couldn't say nice enough things about my Fuji Xerox Docuprint C525A at home. Not sure how old it is but at least six years. Quite decent quality colour laser, just chugs along and does its thing. Not sure I've even had to replace all the cartridges yet. Cheap & reliable as long as you don't want photo quality.

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HAVOCK21 mumbles...

Posted April 21, 2013

yeah, I'm fkn waiting till ya need a new fkn cartridge!....I use Canon, pretty fkn reliable and I'm fkd if I know why you lot have soooo much fkn trouble with computers and setting up printers. PRINTERS ARE FKN CHILDS PLAY YA MUPPETS!.

But yeah, I bought the all in one units some time ago, then, after about 2 years it needs to go in for a service, called them up for an estimate, MORE THAN I PAID FOR TH FKN THING!...So I did it my self.

It makes my hard drive removal look like it was done by a fkn brain surgeon...fkrs!

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she_jedi puts forth...

Posted April 21, 2013

Danny Bhoy's latest stand up show is entitled "Dear Epson...." and is constructed around his 'Dear Epson' letter about the cost of their ink jet cartridges. Just about cried laughing, 'CAUSE IT'S TRUE. Thank god I'm gainfully employed by a big corporation and I can sneak the odd page or two of private printing through the office network and our Ricoh photocopier / printer / scanner / DNA encoder / coffee machine or whatever the hell else it's supposed to do.

I have an old Canon inkjet at home that a friend gave me after his father won it, I kid you not, in the chook raffle at an RSL. Damn thing still works ok despite taking about 15 minutes to warm up and print something, although it tends to pause halfway through each page to contemplate life, the universe and everything before finishing the job. Last time I had to print at home I was in a hurry and was ready to take to the bloody thing with a sledgehammer a la Officespace in sheer frustration. I vowed then to replace it with a laser but still haven't gotten around to it.

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ShaneAlpha has opinions thus...

Posted April 21, 2013

Forget inkjet. Buy a cheap laser. Just be aware that the cartridge that comes with the printer is half size. Buy ONE full size printer cartridge for it. When that cartrdige runs out buy a new printer. Most of the cost of a cheap laser is the cartridge. Take away the cartridge cost and the printer is about $40.00

Legless mutters...

Posted April 21, 2013

^This. Been doing this for the last three years. One more tip I can add. On the Brothers, don't believe the toner low warning or out of toner lie. Taking the toner cartridge out and sticking a bit of tape over a hole will give you twice the life. Sling it when you start to get faded print outs. I found the tip on a youtube video and have been doing it ever since.

Laser printers are so cheap now that I atually keep a brand new one as a spare. When the toner finally gives up the ghost I just unpack the new one, sling the old one and carry on, picking up a new one when I'm passing Officeworks.

Timmo puts forth...

Posted April 22, 2013

To be honest, it shits me that this is the choice we have in this consumerist culture - that it's cheaper to buy a new one than replace parts or even expendables like toner and drums. Because the real cost to society of the use and disposal of everything that goes into a printer is not factored in but is treated as an "externality" - the environmental cost, the loss of unrenewable resources etc are not counted. And businesses sell them at a loss anyway (on just the costs that ARE factored in) to make money from expendables). There are laws in Germany to make sellers entirely responsible for the cost of disposal of goods and packaging that goes into their products (including cars for example) and this cost is passed on. Making things a bit more expensive may have us reconsider the disposability of goods from more than the current simple economic point of view.

On the other issue, I have found exactly the same thing on the Brother toner - don't rely on the computer to tell you when toner is getting low, use your eyes. If the print quality goes, THEN change the toner. My printer (a Brother HL-2270 DW incidentally) has been telling me this for months and printing fine, though I do have a new cartridge sitting around for it.

ShaneAlpha swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted April 22, 2013

Another tip, if the print quality starts to fade, pull the cartridge out and bang it on something several times. you'll get a few more runs out of it.

DNABeast is gonna tell you...

Posted April 22, 2013

My brother printer only costs thirty bucks to refill. Just do a bit of a search on the web for a good deal.

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HAVOCK21 asserts...

Posted April 21, 2013

its one of the reasons our work has the LASER Prineter refills under fkn LOCK, KEY, armed fkn sentry and Nuke type code fkn access

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sibeen puts forth...

Posted April 22, 2013

I like printers, mainly because, in this case, I can always claim "mine is bigger than yours"

I have three printers in my home office. A cannon MP730, which has to be about 10 years old. Its main role is to print out an A43 document every now and then, and do faxing and scanning (A4 only).

Next is a HP K8600, which is the workhorse in the office. prints A3/A4. About 6 years old now, and the poor girl is starting to show her age. Admittedly, she hasn't been treated well, and if the dust buildup on her outer casing is anything to go by her innnards must be fairly cancerous.

My big baby is another HP.- a large format T770. Prints out to B0 size. What every engineer secretley lusts after (we are a weird mob). Had it for a few years now. I shit myself last year when she went pear shaped. I had to call HP and have them send a tech out for repairs. I warned SWMBO that the kids may not be eating for a week or two. Was very pleasantly surprised when the damage came in at less than $200.

This thread is about bragging rights, isn't it? :)

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Matthew K mumbles...

Posted April 22, 2013

Use a medieaval Gutenberg style printing press, sure you'll have to install a stone lined cellar in your house and learn ancient low German in order to instruct the men, but it's still easier and more stress free than the 21st C version.

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Rob has opinions thus...

Posted April 22, 2013

I always had good luck with printers after I switched to Canon. Then a few months back I upgraded (might be an oxymoron here) to windows 8 and then the damn thing wouldn't recognise the Canon printer which worked fine on windows 7. I gave up in huffy and gave the printers to my sons who have lap tops. If I need something printed or scanned I just get them to do it. If they complain I moan about how I'm the one paying for the 500 gig adsl internet account and perhaps they would like to vacum the house and walk the dog, instead of doing 5 minutes of printing and scanning for me. Printing sorted.

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John Birmingham has opinions thus...

Posted April 22, 2013
But ... but... but... Orin assured me Windows 8 was perfect!

JG reckons...

Posted April 22, 2013

JB, I had a Canon laser printer once, bought secondhand at a Parliament House selloff in Canberra. It was great. The cartridge I bought it with (worth about $400 on its own) lasted me throughout my three years as a student at the ANU. It was a giant mother of a printer, but I loved it.

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JG asserts...

Posted April 22, 2013

I bought a cheap HP Deskjet 2510 printer the other day. I think it was $35. I know it's slow and uses the oldest technology (having used plenty of laser printers in the past), but it suits my purposes. It's not like I'm a writer or a student anymore. I only got it to print out the occasional thing I need.

Rob mumbles...

Posted April 24, 2013

Printing for me has gone out the window. I hardly ever print or scan anything. I've taken to photographing my drawings and putting them on my tumblr blog. Scanning seems too precise and doesn't mimic the eye that well. Then you could always go for hectographic pencils and make reverse copies of everything. Just need some dettol and paper and there you have it, instant Da Vinci reverse handwriting secret diary making. But this might be a discussion for an essay on unique genuine output in an age of digital reproduction, copying and re-blogging. But then again we probably don't need to revisit post-modernism just yet.

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Craig Richmond mutters...

Posted April 23, 2013

In 2003 I bought a low end Postscript capable USB HP Laserjet. I'm onto my 4th ream of paper and still on the original toner cartridge. It was a calculated decision when I bought it that the 6000 page toner (it was before the day of starter toner cartridges) was probably a toner cartridge for life. I do wish it was a bit faster with big images, but hey, it's been a solid performer.

I've had moderately positive experiences with HP and Canon when you've thrown that one out the window and your ready for a second go on the merry go round.

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My brother has another new thing

Posted April 16, 2013 into Science and Tech by John Birmingham

I dunno when he found time to do this other thing, in between starting up imeemy.com, but it looks very grown up. Er, somewhat more grown up than a blog not a thousand miles removed from where you've parked your arse right now.

But that's okay. Here, just gimme a minute, I've got some more stuff about cakes n spaceships!

7 Responses to ‘My brother has another new thing’

damian has opinions thus...

Posted April 16, 2013

Neat stuff. It's always slightly reassuring, even if you find it difficult to get excited about online marketing yourself, to see that there are in fact people out there trying new models and making the ones that work happen. Even if they don't necessarily add up to a viable future for rewarding content creation.

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w from brisbane mutters...

Posted April 16, 2013

Very good. I'm a bit of a dill. Could someone explain the website's name, Which-50, to me?

w from brisbane would have you know...

Posted April 17, 2013

I guess that is a no.
Silly pre-internetty question, probably.

TC reckons...

Posted April 18, 2013

I don't get it either, and I'm generally pretty good at these things.

JB, any clues? Or should we actually spend some time on the site and see if the penny drops?

AB puts forth...

Posted May 18, 2013

Re: the name. Its an old advertising story - Marketers like to joke that 50 per cent of advertising is wasted, but no one can tell them which 50.

Yeah I know, I have spent too many years in publishing.

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TC would have you know...

Posted April 17, 2013

It all seems so... serious. Far too much like my job... as opposed to CheeseGoth Utopia, which is a lot more like the inner workings of my mind.

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Dino not to be confused with mutters...

Posted April 20, 2013

Very Interesting JB

(Ya listenin' Andrew? Ya look like ya brother, anyone tell ya that?)

I will be subscribing. SWMBO is involved in Marketing and computer stuff.

I have tried to get her to look at so many things.

She thinks she knows better than moi !

She may talk the talk but I definitely walk the walk.

She won't ever read this will she?

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Death of an iPad cover

Posted April 15, 2013 into Science and Tech by John Birmingham

I took the iPad with me to Perth and Hanoi for that work trip over Easter. I did try to talk myself into buying a shiny retina MacBook, but I really couldn't justify it. With one or two exceptions the iPad does pretty much everything I need, and I suspect the retina 'books will still be another generation or two shaking themselves out. Apple has had some pretty serious problems sourcing reliable displays from anybody other than Samsung.
But the iPad was a perfect travel device, since all I had to do was write a few blogs and take a few notes. Because I'd be writing quite a bit on it I took my Logitech ultrathin keyboard cover, which turns the pad into something resembling a MacBook Air when it's all closed up, but which sits a lot more comfortably on a tray table than the Air does. The Logitech really does turn the pad into much more of a work machine.
When I wasn't using it for work, however, I preferred my old, hand-made Grove case; a really beautiful case made of bamboo, and a nice worn leather cover. It's a much more pleasant artefact to take to the bar when you're dining on your own, for instance. Feels less like work is following you everywhere. It does add some bulk to the device, and there have been times when that hacked me off, but it wasn't until recently that I came to realize how much the simple aesthetics of the Grove added to the experience of using the pad. It wasn't until I didn't have it anymore.
My beloved Grove iPad case is gone. Destroyed on the flight back home.
Airline cabins are not a friendly environment for these cases. The lack of moisture in the air causes them to crack. Because of this I wrapped mine up and stowed it in my checked baggage. Unfortunately I wrapped the baggage using one of those massive plastic dispensers they have the airports now, post Schapelle Corby. I'm not an aeronautical engineer, and I can't tell you why that wrapping tends to 'squeeze' tighter over the course of the flight, but it did. It squeezed so tight that it reduced my much loved bamboo case to splinters. I still have the detachable leather cover, but the pad itself is now protected by a simple gel casing.
It's thinner. It's easier to hold. It's probably even a little more protective. But I hate it. I've always kept all of my iPhones and pads in protective cases, and with each of them I've had reason to be thankful for having done so. My 5, for instance, has already hit the floor two or three times, but the big black ruggedized OtterBox case in which it's hidden worked perfectly on each occasion. Even the Grove Bamboo iPad case, which doesn't advertise itself as providing a great deal of drop protection, did in fact do just that on a couple of occasions.
But no more.
I read a piece about 6 to 12 months ago, written by a design enthusiast, bemoaning the way most people hid their phones away inside ugly, clunky cases. He insisted a grown-up should be able to look after a phone, and that such a beautiful piece of industrial design should not be hidden away inside some shit ugly plastic and rubber cage. I thought he was an idiot. And even worse the sort of arrogant idiot who forgets that not everybody gets sent review units, or can write off a couple of phones a year as a tax loss.
But I'm looking at the nasty, ugly gel cover on my iPad and thinking there might've been something to what he said. Not so much that these expensive and fragile pieces of technology should just be released into the wild with no protection whatsoever. But that encasing them in the cheapest, ugliest but most 'functional' armor you can find actually detracts from the enjoyment of using them.

27 Responses to ‘Death of an iPad cover’

beeso swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted April 15, 2013

I have never had a case on my phone, i don't like having a skerrick more weight or size. Despite what some tech pundits think, bigger isn't always better.

For the ipads, we use the STM cases at work, a nice blend of ruggedness and size. They have prettier ones as well but these ones work great in high use environments.

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w from brisbane asserts...

Posted April 15, 2013

the sort of arrogant idiot who designs stainless steel, sharp edged coffee tables and places them in hotel lobbies etc.

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HAVOCK21 would have you know...

Posted April 15, 2013

with Beeso on the phone ansd covers etc and never busted one or cracked one even and fk knows...I AM HARD ON FKN SHIT!.

As for the stretch wrap...its actaually called shrink wrap its mean to pull in somewhat, but its greatest property is to cling to inselt as you get with glad wrap. SHOULD NOT have fkn compressed that much unless some fkr put the wrapped object in the heat!

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Quokka mutters...

Posted April 15, 2013

I thought it was the pressure in the cargo hold that did that to things.

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Bangar would have you know...

Posted April 15, 2013

H is on the money depending on how it's dipensed (you can prestretch or not) and/or stretch it onto what you wrapping and it will return to smaller size, keeping you pallet together and your iPad cover not so.

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TC would have you know...

Posted April 15, 2013

I don't like having to add a protective cover to things, it's pretty annoying. I choose protective covers that are as small, lightweight and invisible as possible, but I like that other people personalise their own devices. It's just not for me.

I want my fully functional piece of tech to be as light and small as possible. But that's what I want, it's not what everyone wants. I almost bought a Book-book for my iPad because I liked the look of it on Amazon. Then I saw a real one and decided that I didn't like it at all. I also looked at your bamboo ones, John, and they were an almost. But again I stuck with the Apple smart cover.

I'm sorry yours got matchsticked though, I can certainly understand becoming attached to something like that.

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w from brisbane puts forth...

Posted April 15, 2013

You have probably all seen this German ad.

Daughter asks
"Dad, how are you getting along with the iPad we gave? you for your birthday?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtXWWRyJLPw

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John Birmingham mutters...

Posted April 15, 2013

Lobes, I deleted your comment not because it was daft, (which it was) but because you haven't indemnified my for defamation. Pony up some quids and I'll let it back into the wild.

HAVOCK21 asserts...

Posted April 15, 2013

ROFLMFAO!

Brian mutters...

Posted April 15, 2013

Indemnifying?I get that on the new improved burger you can screen and block, first I've ever heard of a fine system anywhere. Not interested in what brought it about - none of my business; is this formal or informal ie off burger?

John Birmingham mumbles...

Posted April 15, 2013

No, it's not a Burger thing. My various media employers, my 'publishers', indemnify me against defamation. As long as I don't recklessly salnder anyone, they'll cover me in a court action. This is why Blunty is sometimes a bit late. We're doing the legals.

It's actually not possible, AFAIK, for anyone of you to indemnify me against being sued for something you say in the comments, and which I, as the Burger's publisher, am then liable for.

So I was sort of taking the piss. But not. Because there was a line in Lobe's comment which would have been actionable. Even if it wasn't found to be defamatory, by the time I'd finished defending it, or even settling out of court, I'd be divorced and homeless.

Punters often screech that the media are gutless and won't print the truth. But very few punters find themselves writing million dollar cheques to lititgants of dubious virtue.

Lobes, of course, is free to repeat his allegations elswhere and take on the litigation risk himself. It is undoubtedly lower for him than me.

damian ducks in to say...

Posted April 15, 2013

Do you suppose there's a market for a whole new kind of public indemnity insurance? My intuition is that for it to be viable for the insurer, the premiums would be prohibitively expensive (easier just not to libel in the first place).

Lobes would have you know...

Posted April 15, 2013

Seems a little precious to me. The family I named have a long history of interactions with the legal system that is a matter of public record.

John Birmingham mumbles...

Posted April 15, 2013

Never been sued for deffo, eh, jungle boy? Pull up a tree stump and let me tell you aaaaaaaall about it.

Lobes puts forth...

Posted April 15, 2013

I'd be more interested to hear why you believe rolling up your luggage in glad wrap like a cold snag at the back of the fridge is useful and/or necessary. IMO the security value is mostly cosmetic and in your case it's actually been a negative.

Travelling with check in luggage is overkill for the tropics anyway, Theres just no need to carry more than 2 or 3 lightweight outfits, particularly considering a trip of such short duration. I have a rant brewing about the necessity of being ruthless when packing but fear I digress too much already. Just leave the steamer trunk at home next time Stanley. You can always buy a few bintang singlets when you get there if you're caught short.

John Birmingham has opinions thus...

Posted April 16, 2013

Those of us with families dont get to travel alone without bringing back heaps of compensatory booty. Hence, you leave with a half empty suitcase and return with a full one. It would be joyous to travel free and light as I once did. But that life is over.

As one day it will be over for you too.

Mwuhahahahahaha.

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Brother PorkChop ducks in to say...

Posted April 15, 2013

One of the imps put his chair leg through his tablet screen a few days before the drive back from Canberra to Brisbane - he was completely distraught and inconsolable given that he now had only analogue entertainment for the journey. Why he had the cover off, I don't know but they would have saved him and have saved me on more than one occasion. I actually quite like the feel of the gecko covers.

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damian is gonna tell you...

Posted April 15, 2013

Damn shame - that bamboo cover looks nice.

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Blarkon would have you know...

Posted April 15, 2013

I know a lot of big sites have Terms of Service to get themselves around the defamation bit - but they also tend to be US based. I know when I've run sites we've put something into the account sign up that basically says "you own what you say and we'll forward your deets to curious lawyers" - but again they haven't been Oz based sites.

In terms of cases - I agree with the "naked is what the creator intended". Cracked phones can be repaired relatively cheaply - though some are better built than others (the new Nokias seem to survive some pretty determined abuse http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDEahsoa_N4 )

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Bunyip is gonna tell you...

Posted April 15, 2013

I loved the hardcase on my iPhoon. Dropped, accidentally drop kicked it, and once *cought* threw it out the window *cough*. Took a full cup of coffee to kill that beastie. Now got a leather & steel flip cover for the Motorola. Dropped it a couple of times. Works fine.

So you 'pureists' can go get <crow noises>.

Shame about the iPad cover JB. Surely worth another one.

John Birmingham mutters...

Posted April 16, 2013

I'd love another, Bunyip, but they've tweaked the design and the cover is no longer removable. A travesty.

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Bangar has opinions thus...

Posted April 16, 2013

I usually don't wrap my luggage ... maybe I should

http://lifehacker.com/5747199/open-a-locked-suitcase-without-leaving-a-trace

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NBlob has opinions thus...

Posted April 16, 2013
  1. I mostly use soft rolly bags with super fine cable ties as 'tells tales' on all the zipper tabs. If one is missing when I take it off the carosel, Before passing through customs I say to Occifer Friendly "It appears my bag has been opened since I checked it, perhaps by security."
  2. @ Lord Blarkon my job has consumed a 6720 & a N8 in the last 18 months. Neither repairable. Now I live in 1992 with a 110, whose sole saving grace is a RRP of $35.
  3. A friend has a disabled 5yr old son whose favourite thing on the planet is his iPad. It lives in a US Marine rated cover. UnDeFuckinStructable. To date has been dipped in the bath, bounced down stairs, dropped, kicked, thrown, chewed used to beat on mum / dad / sister with, even stolen by a malamute...

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damian reckons...

Posted April 16, 2013

Bob, this may be of interest. Though I guess it looks like it should really come with a heart rate monitor, foot sensors and a sweatband...

John Birmingham ducks in to say...

Posted April 16, 2013

Damian, I bleive that may be the first use of the html linker. Congrats. Took you all long enough.

NBlob mumbles...

Posted April 17, 2013

Pretty cool comrade PTSD.

Pity no FM receiver, as that is a function I use daily.

NBlob would have you know...

Posted April 17, 2013

Pretty cool comrade PTSD.

Pity no FM receiver, as that is a function I use daily.

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Respond to 'Death of an iPad cover'

Perhaps a simple cartoon might help

Posted April 9, 2013 into Science and Tech by John Birmingham

I really wanted to run this at Blunty today, but figured I was already taxing everyone's patience with a 3500 word blog post.

14 Responses to ‘Perhaps a simple cartoon might help’

Barnesm ducks in to say...

Posted April 9, 2013

Great piece of art/work.

Remember that great scene with Jeff Goulblum in the movie The Big Chill.

""Don't knock rationalization. Where would we be without it? I don't know anyone who'd get through the day without two or three juicy rationalizations. They're more important than sex".

"No their not"

"Have you ever gone a week without a rationalization?"



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BrianC is gonna tell you...

Posted April 9, 2013

I cant look at youtube at work. I assume this shows i am right. Therefore it is witty and correct

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Quokka mutters...

Posted April 9, 2013

It's a pity you couldn't link that to blunty, I think some of them might actually have gotten it.

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beeso swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted April 9, 2013

Awesome.

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Blarkon ducks in to say...

Posted April 9, 2013

The reason so many people are arguing about whether it's theft or not comes down to a point made in the video "I don't want to feel like a bad person"

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Blarkon is gonna tell you...

Posted April 9, 2013

While I've been banging on about Lanier, there's also Levine's book on the subject published late last year:

http://www.amazon.com/Free-Ride-Parasites-Destroying-Business/dp/0307739775/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365492472&sr=8-1&keywords=free+ride

On the Internet, “information wants to be free.” This memorable phrase shaped the online business model, but it is now driving the media companies on whom the digital industry feeds out of business. Today, newspaper stocks have fallen to all-time lows as papers are pressured to give away content, music sales have fallen by more than half since file sharing became common, TV ratings are plum­meting as viewership migrates online, and publishers face off against Amazon over the price of digital books.

In Free Ride, Robert Levine narrates an epic tale of value destruction that moves from the corridors of Congress, where the law was passed that legalized YouTube, to the dorm room of Shawn Fanning, the founder of Napster; from the bargain-pricing dramas involving iTunes and Kindle to Google’s fateful decision to digitize first and ask questions later.

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pi has opinions thus...

Posted April 9, 2013

That's fantastic.

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drej swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted April 9, 2013

Great vid. Convinces me that I am really a terrible person at heart, and may as well go rob a bank.

Darth Greybeard mumbles...

Posted April 9, 2013

Oh good. No one wanted to be the one to tell you.

John Birmingham ducks in to say...

Posted April 10, 2013

I've been telling him that for years.

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TC puts forth...

Posted April 10, 2013

I like the basis of it: "what incentivises us to be good people?". Some would argue that God and morality do that, but history and experience would say otherwise. Why is there a need for confession if people are always good?

I'm starting to think that everything wrong in the world revolves around this question. Someone cut you off in traffic? Why did they choose to do that? What's incentivising them not to? (apart from the chance that you'll get out and smash them over the head with a skateboard) Someone wants to nuke South Korea? Why would anyone want that? But what's incentivising them not to? Wanting to be a good person?

It seems that wanting to be a good person died out with fans of The Big Chill (sorry Barnesm). What if... what if this - right here and now - is as good as it gets?

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Timmo would have you know...

Posted April 10, 2013

This makes a lot of sense. It reminds me of some personal development stuff I did which was dealing with personal integrity, and encouraged people to look at integrity (basically meeting commitments and acting according to your word) as an ongoing day-to-day behavioural choice rather than as a long-term balance sheet.

It's interesting to see that scientific studies have backed up this approach. Or at least identified that the balance sheet approach is a key reason for failure when outcomes are seen as either good or bad.

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AlexDNLloyd has opinions thus...

Posted April 10, 2013

The RSA have some fantastic stuff. Love their animations.

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w from brisbane ducks in to say...

Posted April 11, 2013

On the subject on GoT and 'torrenting'.

The humour of the freetards and their curious Gríma Wormtongue impersonations waned very quickly. But I hadn't twigged that the star of JB's 'Felafel' movie, the always excellent Noah Taylor, is in the third season of Game of Thrones. Now I understand the protectiveness. It's like a dad thing. 'That's my boy!'

It's quite lovely. (sniff, sniff)

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Respond to 'Perhaps a simple cartoon might help'

How a comment thread works

Posted March 18, 2013 into Science and Tech by John Birmingham

Some of you have noticed that the chronological order of comments has flipped, so that the threads now display the oldest comments first. Don't get too comfy with that. Although it was the way of things before, and is the system used at Fairfax, I'm not convinced it is the way to go here.

This blog is designed like a scroll. It renders as a long column of text and images. But mostly text. With a hundred-comment discussion on display, that is a mighty big chunk of vertical real estate. Because of this, it is way more elegant to display the most recent stand alone comments (ie. not replies) up the top of the discussion. It saves a lot of scrolling.

I am however, talking to Dan about coding the Recent Comments display in such a way as to take you directly to the comment you click or tap on. This means you can go directly to conversations within the thread that catch your eye.

The ability to reply directly to a comment means giving up a strict linear progression either forward or backwards through a dicussion. It's a design choice. One I'm happy to make because of clarity it delivers in terms of conversation within the thread.

I will make a final call on this before we all get bedded down, and am happy to listen to everyone's views. In the end, like my ascended master, I will decide what's best for everyone, but I'm curious about others opinions on this. Oldest comment first, or newest?

66 Responses to ‘How a comment thread works’

JG swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 18, 2013

I agree with you, John. Newest comments first, otherwise there's too much scrolling up an down. Makes sense to have the most recent comments up top.

Second layer comments are a bit tricky, because you can't see if people respond to them. Not sure if there's any point in having a second layer, although I guess it's good for people to have their own little conversations inside a thread.

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sibeen mutters...

Posted March 18, 2013

so that the threads now display the oldest comments first.

Jaysus, even the boss is confused.

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damian mumbles...

Posted March 18, 2013

First things first: trying Firefox on Linux here and it looks just fine. Login took alarmingly long, but that could just be a net hiccup.

I think whatever the order, it should be consistent. So if the comment thread is reverse chronological, then the replies should be too.

Also, the comment entry box should be close to the last comment, so if the comment thread is reverse order then that means it should come first. I maybe didn't express well last night (yes, the bar staff seem to like me an awful lot, I applaud their taste but I can't fathom why...), but the implication of putting it at the end of the thread, where there are many comments but also several articles/posts after the thread, means there is no way to avoid manually scrolling a lot to enter a comment. If there were no extra articles, one could hit the "end" key.I perceive that there is a fair bit of client side stuff going on with how the comment box is rendered and where it appears. This is very cool stuff. Maybe it is possible to make it's position dynamic enough to make these workflows easier?

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tqft mutters...

Posted March 18, 2013

Newest comment first for me as I often come back an finding the new stuff will be a challenge for me. It's why I liked the old CBG RSS comment feed even if I was the only using it all comments could be seen without navigation.

I am not sure the display algorithm is what I expected - I can't seem to open one article in tab by itself. If I could finding a comment thread would be easy & the problems go away.

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Barnesm ducks in to say...

Posted March 18, 2013

but anything by Havoc automaticaly goes to the top right?

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zeniph puts forth...

Posted March 18, 2013

The logic re vertical real-estate is very sound but I still like it the other way – oldest first.

My main issue with newest first is that it really breaks up the flow of trying to read through and follow a conversation between different commenters. Add to that the (great) nested comments going the other way it does kind of twist your mind.

Easy to say when you’re not the one having to code it but it perhaps it wouldn’t be that hard to have a toggle to change comment the sort order on demand.

damian asserts...

Posted March 18, 2013

Or even betterer, a user profile setting.

Darth Greybeard asserts...

Posted March 18, 2013

Give that man a drink! Unless you're Dan, in which case . . .

But yes, user choice via cookie would be grand & I'd have no idea if that's even possible. Failing that I'd prefer oldest at the top, or at least having nested comments in the same chronological order as main comments.

Re the actual comments box (and I'm sorry Dan, because I don't think I've ever seen this in a blog) would it be possible for it to move beside the comments, remaining with the cursor? I have seen graphics that maintain their pos'n as you scroll through. I think. Hey, you did ask for comments/ideas. No one said they had to be easy or practical.

DNABeast reckons...

Posted March 18, 2013

There's definitely something to this.

damian ducks in to say...

Posted March 18, 2013

The challenge with a floating entry box is screen real estate, especially on mobile devices. I don't see it as impossible. But placement could get very clever indeed if you let the thought process run.

Dick ducks in to say...

Posted March 19, 2013

+1 to damian

Peter in the bleaches has opinions thus...

Posted March 19, 2013

Make that +2 to Damian

If it can't be changed through a user profile, then oldest first as per Zeniph's reasoning - reading through the previous comments. You look a bit of a dick if you make the same comment as someone else.

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Legless is gonna tell you...

Posted March 18, 2013

Can I make a suggestion? Could you add a new catagory, Recomended Authors. 'Cos I'm always on the lokout for new people to read. I've picked up few a from here most notably Jim Butcher but most of the authors I've rea after hearing them discussed on here have been worthwhile.

Cheers

Barnesm is gonna tell you...

Posted March 19, 2013

and perhaps a tag/catagory for Bookclub

John Birmingham mutters...

Posted March 19, 2013

There is a category for BookClub. We just haven't used it yet.

Barnesm reckons...

Posted March 20, 2013

Ah, thanks

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NBlob puts forth...

Posted March 18, 2013

A heavier than air comment thread? you'll never get it off the ground, if you somehow manage it, it'll consume so much lignite as to be naught but a plaything of the 6 or 7 richest kings of Europe.

NBlob asserts...

Posted March 18, 2013

As a matter of urgency may we have a page with the unusual suspects blog roll back?

Please,

As that was how I got to PNB's, His Rhinoness', FknHavoc's, and my blog.

John Birmingham mutters...

Posted March 19, 2013

You know how Steve Jobs would often say no to seemingly good ideas?

Barnesm would have you know...

Posted March 19, 2013

Like not using alternative medicine to treat aggressive cancer?

Too soon?

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Darth Greybeard asserts...

Posted March 18, 2013

Oh, and as someone who's posted under the influence of alcohol and/or depression, is it possible for us to delete something we later regret?

JG asserts...

Posted March 19, 2013

Hear hear, Greybeard. That's a brilliant suggestion. An edit function would be handy too. Poor Dan. This sounds like a full-time job.

Paul_Nicholas_Boylan puts forth...

Posted March 19, 2013

No, no, no. Definitely no. No deletions. No do-overs for drunken rants. In vino veritas.

John Birmingham swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 19, 2013

Poor Dan? Poor me. I got to pay for all your brilliant ideas. Although I am attracted to edited comments.

Barnesm asserts...

Posted March 19, 2013

And perhaps a pre-set font and colour for certain commentors. Like when Havoc loggs in all his comments are in bold comic sans and coloured puce 814444.

damian is gonna tell you...

Posted March 19, 2013

The thing that frightens me a little, Barnes, is that you know the RGB recipe for "puce". I do not wish to discover, sir, what depraved end was involved in the acquisition of this knowledge. I can't hear you, LALALALALALALALA.

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Coriolisdave ducks in to say...

Posted March 18, 2013

Definitely oldest first. Reverse breaks up the conversation more, makes it more prone to individual comments than actual discussion.

Perhaps the ability to hide/collapse read comments (logged-in users only) would help with the keeping-up issue?

John Birmingham mumbles...

Posted March 19, 2013

That's a very good idea, especially the value adding for registered users. But it sounds like a shitload of coding.

HAVOCK21 mumbles...

Posted March 21, 2013

Sell a bunnie or two ya git!..sheeez, remember oh OVERLORDIE PAUNCHIE FELLA!..ya minions tend NOT to rise up and cap ya it they are kinda fkn HAPPY!

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w from brisbane tiresomely mutters...

Posted March 18, 2013

Reverse chronological order means there are 2 orders. Individual comments are read top to bottom, but the thread is read bottom to top. The eyes bounce up and down...what was in those pills?

Chronological order means the whole text stream is in the same order. This provides the rich pleasures of narrative reading.Just my preference, either way has its own advantages.

JG reckons...

Posted March 19, 2013

'The eyes bounce up and down' -- hahaha! Love it.

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Bunyip mumbles...

Posted March 18, 2013

Actually, whilst we are still discussing layout etc, I'm noticing a sliding off the bottom for the recent comment list. JB, as you and Dan make posts, the comment list

Next>>

NBlob on Yadda Yadda Yadda,

Legless on Something Something Something,

....seems to get shorter and shorter. And, is it picking up only our comments, or our comments, and our replies to other folks comments?

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damian has opinions thus...

Posted March 18, 2013

It's funny how blogs seem to need to reinvent usenet. I would say that I miss slrn, view it with a nostalgic glint, but really this webby stuff is better, there's less learning curve and no configuration.

I do miss score files though, and being able to navigate threads effortlessly.

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damian mumbles...

Posted March 18, 2013

Oh... the link in "Recent Comments" should take you to the comment, not just the article.

JG has opinions thus...

Posted March 19, 2013

Yes!

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Rhino is gonna tell you...

Posted March 19, 2013

Wait, I actually have to TYPE a comment? WTF? I can't just think it into the box. I thought this was supposed to be something new and grand. How disappointing.

Why can't the comments be displayed per my personal preference? List by poster as they appear on the ever-changing list of people in/out of Rhino's favor? That should be easy to do, right?

And, why the hell do I even need to READ this with my EYEBALLS? That is hard. It should be beamed directly to my brain. On demand.

THIS ENTIRE THING SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do I get the first troll comment award?

Brian ducks in to say...

Posted March 19, 2013

NO!

John Birmingham reckons...

Posted March 19, 2013

Rhino wins

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Murphy ducks in to say...

Posted March 19, 2013

I prefer the old scroll method. The new method reminds me of my experiences with a piece of educational malware known as Blackboard, particularly the Discussion Thread component of it, which tends to be a maddening nightmare to deal with.

As a result, I am probably one of the few instructors who do not use Blackboard. The discussion bit is one of many reasons (reliability, or the lack thereof, being another).

Keep the old method.

Respects,

Murph

On the Outer Marches

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Matthew K is gonna tell you...

Posted March 19, 2013

No no. Oldest comments first please, then we can read through in chronological order. Makes more sense that way.

Otherwise? Very nice indeed JB.

Although I will observe that some blogs are no longer on my bookmarks list as recent changes now make commenting too difficult. Yes Jalopnik I'm looking at you. Or rather I'm not.

Moral? Make it a slow, frustrating and unintuitive process to comment if you want to drive people away.

More than about five minutes trying to post a comment and I question whether it's a wise use of time.

That Cheeseburger illustration is making me peckish... Tesco time!

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John Birmingham ducks in to say...

Posted March 19, 2013

I think the only way to make an oldest first design work is to provide people with a way to get to the end of the thread without endless fucking scrolling. On a desktop it doesn't matter as much because the mouse/trackpad lets you cover that distance very quickly. But if you're reading a long article with an even longer comment tail on a mobile device, even a big tab, there is an awful lot of work to move thru the text. On a phone it would actually stop me from bothering.

Dave W puts forth...

Posted March 19, 2013

So the main problem is designing from the perspective of multiple platforms? You'll get as many answers as there are platforms.

I vote for ease of use on mobile device- those using desk/lap-tops will get used to anything. I was on the non-fruity mobile yesterday and it was quite usable, so I think that it's about right.

Now, how do I get myself a groovy picture instead of an on/off button picture?

Darth Greybeard mutters...

Posted March 19, 2013

Gravatar will provide the means but the degree of grooviness is up to you.

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DILLIGAF asserts...

Posted March 19, 2013

JB, check out http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons.

The forum section renews every day, but there are many good ideas that could be used.

See what you think.

BTW It's free too.

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Therbs has opinions thus...

Posted March 19, 2013

Yeah, that's all fine and good but where do I rest my drink? And there should be a pizza order link. C'mon you lot, chop chop! I'm not here for a haircut you know..

Bunyip has opinions thus...

Posted March 19, 2013

I think Havock is in charge of the barber shop app.

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M. asserts...

Posted March 19, 2013

Oldest first. As a couple have already opined, oldest first keeps the development of the conversation in chronological order, which I reckon is better.

Regardless, I'm digging the new layout - but did have trouble trying to comment from the iPhone yesterday.

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Quokka swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 19, 2013

I am far more likely to view CBG from my desktop IMAC than the ipad so I like chronological order. I'm still adjusting to the nested comments/replies but have found it far easier to make sense of them now that it's back in chronological order.

Maybe we need to do a head count of all those using desktop v. all those using iphones/tablets. And then we'll have an idea of what the body count will be when it comes to Muskets at Dawn.

damian swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 19, 2013
I suggest the following:

1. Map the "End" key to jump to the end of the thread, the comment box or next post. There are JavaScript libraries for this (can't Google right now but I think one is called keypress). Consider other shortcuts and mappings.

2. Provide on screen links in a form suitable for clumsy fingers to do the same thing. This could be an always -there navigation pane

3. Make the order a user choice (or even per device with cookies)

Just thoughts anyhow - not demanding anything. I think the user profile is the big value add...

damian ducks in to say...

Posted March 19, 2013
I suggest the following:

1. Map the "End" key to jump to the end of the thread, the comment box or next post. There are JavaScript libraries for this (can't Google right now but I think one is called keypress). Consider other shortcuts and mappings.

2. Provide on screen links in a form suitable for clumsy fingers to do the same thing. This could be an always -there navigation pane

3. Make the order a user choice (or even per device with cookies)

Just thoughts anyhow - not demanding anything. I think the user profile is the big value add...

damian would have you know...

Posted March 19, 2013

And meh. The ability to delete and edit would be cool, as you can see by my own failings. Note that having logged-in users is an enabler in that department. Aside: the format buttons didn't appear under Chrome for Android. Not complaining, just one more small issue. Is there a proper place to report such things? A JIRA or WebRT or something?

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Lobes asserts...

Posted March 19, 2013

Like every other English speaker I read from left to right, top to bottom. Having comments formatted in any other way is unnatural for people who speak our tongue. Don't even get me started on having different flow order for different sections within a comment thread.

I think we are forgetting here that this is a blog and that every comment thread is attached to a specific blog post that has a central idea(s).

The premise of the comment thread is to address and discuss that central idea of the blog post . Of course it's a reality that often the discussion veers off topic into weird and wonderful directions and that is one of the inherent joys of a blog but it doesn't change the fact that a comment threads existence is to address the original post and this is much more coherently done by following natural English reading pattern of left right, top bottom.

The Facebook analogy is a false one. Facebook comment threads are always oldest top newest bottom.

I appreciate the point about difficulty of accessing recent comments from mobile devices but this is not the solution. If its really important to you then make comment order something that can be set by registered users, hell even make recent-first the default setting but don't fuck with the English languages time honoured left right, top bottom style.

John Birmingham would have you know...

Posted March 19, 2013

I'm reluctantly coming around to it.

Murphy swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 19, 2013

Hitting the LIKE button on Lobes comment and I agree with his false analogy statement concerning FB comments. The comments here are more like Twitter, which are fairly maddening to sort through.

Respects,

Murph

On the Outer Marches

zeniph puts forth...

Posted March 19, 2013

youtube has newest first but its not the engaging, intertwined, thought out and nuanced points of view expressed in the youtube comment stream that makes me go there.

like I mentioned earlier it would be fairly trivial to add a rudimentary reverse comment order switch (again easy to say when your not the monkey coding it or paying for it)

whole site looks great btw

DNABeast has opinions thus...

Posted March 21, 2013

Each comment should be chronologically removed from each other comment. They exist as direct responses to the post. But replies to a comment exist in relation to each other. I'm getting pretty keen on the facebook analogy.

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Brother PorkChop ducks in to say...

Posted March 19, 2013

Oldest first works. But let's face it, if it were changed everyone would be used to it in 2 months, same as any new page format or software.

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Darth Greybeard reckons...

Posted March 19, 2013

You underestimate the power of the Fogey Side. Change and new things are bad as any fule no. Why NowhereBob is still pining for rotary dial telephones and mullets.

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Mayhem asserts...

Posted March 19, 2013

I'm on the side of oldest first. Even on the iPad it doesn't take long to scroll to the bottom of a comment thread. What would be way coo though, and no idea if its even possible, is if a user could somehow set the point they reached in the thread then hit a button, icon whatever,which takes them back to the same point. Now, even as I type this I realise that would mean the user risks missing replies to older comments. Bugger!

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Quokka reckons...

Posted March 19, 2013

If we end up going with chronological order it would be nice to have the Control + End buttons on the desktop do what they used to do.

Otherwise we're all stuck with scrolling down and sifting to see what's been embedded in these comment nests.

I caution all of you to watch out for reptiles and rats. Khan Greybeard has no ethics when it comes to releasing things that will make the girls scream & flee.

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TheWah mumbles...

Posted March 19, 2013

I think the world had changed before the second Iraq invasion in a way that caught western leaders off guard. On one hand the concept of true open democracy was being lauded as the most ideal political situation but then the governing bodies needed to keep things secret from the masses due to strategic reasons. This made them all look either incompetent, when the reasons for going to war were shown to be patently false (WMDs), or just plain evil.

We don't have the stomach to re-do another Iraq as a people because we are aware of the way we were manipulated last time by our own leaders. Even if it was the right thing to do next time, like Iran maybe, the people won't trust the leaders at all. To the detriment of everybody on both sides.

TheWah asserts...

Posted March 19, 2013

... Yes.. I'm a silly William.

Off to the correct thread with me!

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JG mumbles...

Posted March 19, 2013

Oh well. I'm getting used to all the scrolling down. You've convinced me. The chronological flow makes sense. Oldest first it is then.

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TC puts forth...

Posted March 19, 2013

Damn, I wrote a cool response and it did a Horatio on me.

Summarised (although in summary it just looks like what everyone else wrote...): default order could be oldest first and you (or Dan) add a button under each article that flips the comments (except for nested responses) and re-loads the page? As I screamed into the void earlier, that doesn't seem too difficult a thing to do.

Plus I wrote per se in italics, which tickled my fancy a bit. I can't remember why though.

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WarDog is gonna tell you...

Posted March 21, 2013

Umm, where's the RSS feed for the comments disappeared to?

Now I'm only getting the stories

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HAVOCK21 asserts...

Posted March 21, 2013

EH FKN!

Give me control and I'll fix it all rather fkn right o old fkn boy fkn quick smart, lickity fkn split like and have the muppets leaping around like a fart in a pickle jar!

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Respond to 'How a comment thread works'

Does anyone here still use Google Reader, besides Hitler?

Posted March 15, 2013 into Science and Tech by John Birmingham

Because apparently more than half the traffic thru the Burger is sourced from it. That doesn't mean it's going to get very quiet around here any time soon. I imagine most of the regulars have the site bookmarked or can just type in the first few letters of the addy.

But thousands of hits a month come from Reader. From lurkers and random drop ins, I assume.

So, with the redesign due to launch soon, I'm kind of curious for some anecdotal information about how people end up here. Lurkers in particular.

115 Responses to ‘Does anyone here still use Google Reader, besides Hitler?’

insomniac would have you know...

Posted March 15, 2013
i first arrived here through reading blunty. these days it's a bookmark

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Surtac asserts...

Posted March 15, 2013
Yeah. Big user. I generally have it open in a tab all day long.

I find it an almost perfect aggregator for all of the disparate stuff I follow and I'm not happy it's going away.

I'm very much open to suggestions as to what to replace it with. I had a look at The Old Reader yesterday after the announcement, but their servers were already in meltdown.

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An Idle Dad asserts...

Posted March 15, 2013
Me! I'm on Google Reader right now and then click through to the articles you post that sound interesting (most of them, rest assured).

I 'might' click through from a twitter link you post, but 99% is from Google Reader.

I'm just looking at alternative RSS feeders, I'm sure a decent drag-and-drop replacement (like the one Digg just announced ten minutes ago) will be in place by then.

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UncySpam mutters...

Posted March 15, 2013
yup I love Google Reader... I've commented once or twice but mostly just read...

Try Feedly if you are looking for an alternative, its not great, but it does the job until a new free contender arrives...

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Phil would have you know...

Posted March 15, 2013
I'm a lurker and I access your blog, like all the other internet sites that I regularly visit from Google Reader.

I'm very disappointed that Google are closing Google Reader down from the first of July but I guess it was good while it lasted. Right now I'm trying some replacements. Feedly [http://www.feedly.com] seems to work very well and very simple to transfer all my feeds from Reader to it.

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Kevin Munro would have you know...

Posted March 15, 2013
I use it for up to 2 hours a day, every day. I was mortified at the news. I use the Reeder iOS client who have said they'll move to another sync service, thank god.

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johnbirmingham would have you know...

Posted March 15, 2013
Wow.

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johnbirmingham asserts...

Posted March 15, 2013
Oddly enough I'm not much of an RSS reader. I have a bunch of disparate newstrackers and sites I follow, looking for stuff to blog about. It's all very old school. Pull down the menu, go to the home page, look around for a bit. I'm sort of glad now I never caught up with the moment and used Reader.

Gruber had a link to a rant from another blogger this morning that explained it very well, I thought:

Reader made its first public appearance a couple of months before this, in October 2005. I remember this period well - it was a time of immense excitement, when RSS seemed to be the future, the news ecosystem was vibrant, and this thing called the blogosphere, fueled by peer subscription, was doubling in size every six months. It was into this magic garden that Google wandered, like a giant toddler leaving destruction in its wake. Reader was undeniably a good product, but it's best quality was also its worst: it was free. Subsidized by Google's immense search profits, it never had to earn its keep, and its competitors started to die. Over time, the "hyper competitive" RSS reader market turned into a monoculture. Today, on the eve of its shutdown, RSS more or less means "Google Reader" to a large fraction of readers, to the extent where even the best feed readers on IOS are just Google Reader clients1.

The sudden shock of Reader's closure will harm a news ecosystem that I already believe to be deeply ill. Google Reader is not just a core part of my information diet - it's also the most direct channel I have to readers of this blog. As of today, the Reader subscriber count for corte.si stands at about 3 times the total number of other subscribers combined. Some of these readers will migrate to other services and stay in touch, but many will inevitably abandon the idea of direct subscription to blogs entirely. In the next few months, tens of thousands of small blogs will lose direct contact with a large fraction of their readers.

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NBlob reckons...

Posted March 15, 2013
Sorry for the Off Topic, but I believe thanks are in order.

"...instead imagine two ferocious egomaniacs turning purple with rage and gobbing poison phlegm into each other's eyes, chances are you'd be right on the money."

Macarthur V.S Bligh. Leviathon P273 (ppbk)

Thankyou JB, you've made my day.

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Dave W is gonna tell you...

Posted March 15, 2013
I think, but I'd have to go home and check and I'm notoriously lazy, I discovered your blog from a sleeve note or list of 'other things by the author' at the front of one of the books.

How's that for old skool?

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pitpat swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 15, 2013
Same here, Dave W, I think it was on one of the AoT auhor notes that I first heard of CheeseBurger Gothic and then about a year before I felt comfortable commenting. RSS feeds I never got but then again I can be a bit of a luddite- still don't get farcebook.

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Therbs swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 15, 2013
WTF is Google Reader and what's RSS?

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Bondiboy66 ducks in to say...

Posted March 15, 2013
Initially via the Great JSPace Collapse. Now it's just bookmarked.

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Daniel swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 15, 2013
I subscribe through Google Reader, and that's how I got here today. I love RSS and I'm not sure how I'd approach things without it. I think I would just end up losing track of most sites, including this one, if they weren't in my feeds.

I'm assuming I'll have to find an alternative RSS client. I like akregator at home on my linux desktop, but of course that's no use at work (windows) or on my phone, and doesn't sync between systems at all.

Sigh!

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LegalLibrarian ducks in to say...

Posted March 15, 2013
I'm a lurker. I have had your site bookmarked since you were a guest at a law library conference last year. I haven't used Google reader for a while now.

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Shep mutters...

Posted March 15, 2013
I read all of your articles on google reader along with 133 other blogs I've subscribed to.
Only click through to comments occasionally if it looks like it might be interesting

I love Reader it because it looks unassuming, so it can stay open all day at work without too many issues + it works with multiple browsers so I can be sure it'll work no matter which computer I end up on (various clients, project sites etc).

I always wondered about it's future though, cause there are no ads, from Google or from any of the subscriptions.

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Daniel puts forth...

Posted March 15, 2013
Shep: +1 to using Google Reader at work

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Moz mumbles...

Posted March 15, 2013
GR for me is an RSS reader that works on phone, laptop, desktop, other phone and work, plus syncs between them. Amazingly, it's fairly usable on a 3" screen phone (more usable than most things). I'll be replacing it with something that does the same stuff, ideally with something that lets me say "on the phone, never show me this set of feeds" (one thing GR doesn't do is let me dump the high volume feeds that are just annoying in a one-click-and-waitforitwaitforitwaaaait-next-item device. I used to run a dedicated aggregator on my website but it stopped working and I was already using GR on my phone so I just switched. I might have to switch back, which means fixing the mobile version of my personal site.

I've only hit the proper web page to make this comment, and only coz I'm reading your blog with my phone leaning on a full size keyboard... it's easier to find the site and comment using that than faff about with the OSC on the phone.

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HAVOCK21 mutters...

Posted March 15, 2013
FKN GODS don't use READER so why should FKN ANYBODY give to flying fkn fks about its demise! well! that and the fact I rally have NFI what ya talking about, musta been a real gem.......not! cowboy up Princesss, I'm fkn working for a living now..ya should try it JB

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Therbs mutters...

Posted March 15, 2013
"I'll now be getting all my news from what's been retweeted by Stalin" is my fave line.
FWIW I hooked into CBG in old journalspace days via it being mentioned in author's notes in Weapons of Choice.

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ddog puts forth...

Posted March 15, 2013
Delurking, I'm exactly the same as @Surtac. Have it open all day at work, it aggregates all the random sites that I follow. That way I have a super high level overview of everything I can just flick through, see if there's anything interesting and move on.

Now that it's going away I have no fkn idea what I'm going to do. Bookmark here and check it once a day hoping for posts like an animal?!

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Lulu asserts...

Posted March 15, 2013
"i first arrived here through reading blunty. these days it’s a bookmark"
"WTF is Google Reader and what’s RSS?"

Ditto to both of those.

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Dave W mumbles...

Posted March 15, 2013
Ddog, checking hourly- that's what I do.

There was another way to go about it, in a way that didn't look so obvious in the workplace? Now I feel like a complete noob.

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Daniel mumbles...

Posted March 15, 2013
It looks like we failed to proselytize the virtues of RSS to the wider population. I'm a software developer so I guess I'm in the techie niche who have relied on RSS every day for about 8 years now.

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Caroline asserts...

Posted March 15, 2013
Hi John,
I found you on Twitter and then clicked the link in the heading... It was a bit difficult to follow you straight from your blog as I couldn't find a "follow me" link so I followed you from the Wordpress Reader instead. I got there in the end by just bumbling my way across the digital world...

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Daniel would have you know...

Posted March 15, 2013
OOoooh WordPress Reader. How is it Caroline?

http://blogs.denverpost.com/techknowbytes/2013/03/14/wordpress-coms-reader-ready-to-take-google-readers-top-spot/9136/

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JG is gonna tell you...

Posted March 15, 2013
I've got it earmarked. Funny, I didn't check out CBG out for about two or more years as your FB friend, JB, even though I commented there heaps. Finally came here from your info page on FB or from your Twitter header link, I think. Don't think I made a comment until about Sept 2011. Still tormented that I haven't got an imaginative tag like 'Blarkon' or 'Havock' or 'NBlob' [formerly NBob]. By the by, does that stand for fkn Bob, N Blob? From what I can recall, the tag (names) I've assigned myself in the past here have included 'Red Roo', 'Blue Tongue', and I can't remember the others. Suffer little Cheeseburgers, for I am with you.
Sister Joanna :)
P.S. Not really. I was named after Pope John Paul II.

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WarDog is gonna tell you...

Posted March 15, 2013
I use Reader as my main means of aggregating about 2 dozen feeds and several hundred messages day (most of which are generated by you bastards). Losing reader will hurt unless I can find a good replacement that
a) Let's me consume from a web browser from any location
b) Let's me consume from an Android tablet
c) Handles the synchronicity between A & A & B well, without huge latency or data overhead.

For those interested there are a number of petitions to try to save it (though I doubt it will work). This one currently has 85,000 signatures including my own.
https://www.change.org/petitions/google-keep-google-reader-running

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Rhino swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 15, 2013
Don't use Reader but I keep track of blogs I follow in an applet on my blog www.rhinorog.blogspot.com.

Other stuff I check I keep links in folders according to the frequency and/or time of day I check them so I can "open all" at once and skim through tabs. For instance, the 'morning' folder contains various and sundry comic strips and a couple of news aggregation sites that I want to look at first thing while having my morning cuppa.

Anyone looking for permanence with respect to a free tool on the web is a little deluded.

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Gnu Webster asserts...

Posted March 15, 2013
I'm a lurker, found blog through Brisbane Times column. Usually read via Google Reader and only click through if I especially want to read the comments. Can spend up to an hour a day using GR, currently subscribed to around 60 sites.

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JG would have you know...

Posted March 15, 2013
I use Google but I don't use Google Reader. Don't even know what it is. Still suspicious about RSS. Don't use it. This is the only blog I follow. Don't want to spend my life online.
P.S. ^I was named after Pope John XXIII, I mean, seeing as I was born in '63. He died a couple of weeks before I was born. My parents are devout Catholics.

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Murphy has opinions thus...

Posted March 15, 2013
I had a blog before Cheeseburger Gothic, before Google Reader and before, well, whatever.

Ah, no, I don't think I use Google Reader. I don't use Google Plus either. The only things Google I use are the search engine and the customized news bit.

Wait, is the news bit what everyone's talking about? Meh.

Respects,
Murph
On the Outer Marches

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Daniel puts forth...

Posted March 15, 2013
JG: RSS lets me keep track of 109 sites without *having* to spend my life online. That's the beauty of it.

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BobGrrl has opinions thus...

Posted March 15, 2013
Yup, big Google Reader user here too, clicked through from reader to post this.

I've fired up Feedly for a test run, so far, so good, although the lack of a compatible version for IE is annoying because I'm locked into that browser while at work.

The Feedly apps for iOS is great on the iPad, but suffers badly from the space constraint on an iPhone.

My last month worth of stats:

"From your 80 subscriptions, over the last 30 days you read 3,841 items, clicked 350 items, starred 7 items, and emailed 2 items.

Since July 1, 2008 you have read a total of 172,376 items."

Most days I'm sifting through several thousand items, scanning headlines, clicking on what's of interest. I can't imagine a world without RSS or something similar.

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Daniel puts forth...

Posted March 15, 2013
Google reader, about 600+ feeds. Reeder is pretty much the best at skimming through large swathes of, errr ... content to find the hidden gems.

I tend to visit blogs once, if I like I add and the reader from that point on.

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Stuart swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 15, 2013
Also Reader tells me that Cheeseburger Gothic has 491 Google Reader subscriptions and Blunt Instrument has 151

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Celia ducks in to say...

Posted March 15, 2013
Can't remember how or why I originally subscribed, but I always read through Google Reader, rarely clicking through. I have it open all day, and use it via Feedly on my phone as well.

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Daniel reckons...

Posted March 15, 2013
Interesting stats, Stuart. Surely having this kind of knowledge about who reads what has some value for Google. But I guess it is, just as they say, that the user base is not quite big enough to be worth it.

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Stuart asserts...

Posted March 15, 2013
Daniel, they could have grown the user base if they had put resources behind into it.

My favourite theory is that using Reader reduces website clicks which effects the advertising revenue. Google of course have a direct interest in increasing that revenue Reader was contrary to that.

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johnbirmingham is gonna tell you...

Posted March 15, 2013
Damn. This is utterly fascinating. If I had known so many people were just skimming on Reader I'd probably have run this blog quite differently.

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John is gonna tell you...

Posted March 15, 2013
I use Reader multiple times a day. It's my main aggregation point for blogs, tech articles etc. I'm very annoyed it's shutting down, even though it shouldn't take me long to switch over to another RSS feed reader. It's just one more bit of yak-shaving I'd rather not do.

Having said that, I come to this blog via your twitter feed, although I totally disagree with those who say Twitter is an adequate RSS replacement. The signal-to-noise ratio on RSS feeds tends to be way higher.

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Brian puts forth...

Posted March 15, 2013
Reader.

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Lobes ducks in to say...

Posted March 15, 2013
I've never used google reader or an RSS service. First visited the journalspace ancestor of this blog via a note in the front of an axis of time book then migrated with the rest when JS shat itself. Gawd that was a disaster.

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Tim B asserts...

Posted March 15, 2013
Your Twitter feed.

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Stevo 73 puts forth...

Posted March 15, 2013
Bookmarked.

I now kinda wish I had known about this reader thing of which you speak, it sounds interesting and useful...... Pity it's going the way of the Dodo

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NBlob mumbles...

Posted March 15, 2013
"yak-shaving " Wiktionary
Noun yak shaving (uncountable)

(idiomatic) Any apparently useless activity which, by allowing you to overcome intermediate difficulties, allows you to solve a larger problem.

Other sources cite a Ren & Stimpy ep.

Gold. Thank you mysterious masked man.
I shall be including that in my kexicon from this point on.

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Dylwah is gonna tell you...

Posted March 15, 2013
I ended up here after following some linklove from Blue Milk or the Hoydens, don't remember which. I bookmarked the site and two weeks later my computer died and in the time it took to get a new one my priorities changed and time became short. I spent a while reading Blunty thinking to myself that you had another blog until serendipity led me back. Bookmarked again. I reckon I get here roughly half and half twitter links and cuppa time surfing with the occasional "oh, book club" moment.

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Surtac is gonna tell you...

Posted March 15, 2013
I've just had another go at moving stuff from Google Reader to TheOldReader.

There are 16,511 imports in the queue ahead of me. Could take awhile. :(

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Phil ducks in to say...

Posted March 15, 2013
I'm would say I am an obsessive 'burger reader, but a perennial lurker. Google reader was my normal route to most of my browsing - right after google retired "igoogle"! So now I have moved over to http://www.feedafever.com/ and taken a little control back. It allows me to run a private rss aggregator on my own domain - a kind of personal cloud service. I have had it going less than a day - but love it. Here is an informative review:
http://www.macdrifter.com/2012/02/fever-reader-review.html

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Samwise swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 15, 2013
while i dont use an RSS reader myself, I saw a post on Reddit suggesting to wait out looking for a replacement. their reasoning was that in the next few months developers will be developing new ones and tweaking existing products to meet the demand of current Google Reader users.

heres the link for a better explanation and the prerequisite reddit debating:
http://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/1aanp2/lpt_wait_till_july_1st_to_switch_from_google/

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Stuart reckons...

Posted March 15, 2013
JB, I can't speak for all RSS users but I don't skim your blog posts. I read every one, otherwise it wouldn't be on my feed.

The choice for me is not between reading them via RSS or reading via the actual page, it's reading via RSS or not reading at all because I don't have enough hours in the day to visit every single site.

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Blarkon reckons...

Posted March 15, 2013
Another that lives in Google reader.
There is a joke "Someone opens a bar in Silicon Valley. Ten thousand people turn up at the opening. No one buys anything. TechCrunch and AllThingsD declare it a revolutionary success."

The assumption that you can get a quality ongoing service for free may be shown to be the Unicorn semen it always was

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GT puts forth...

Posted March 15, 2013
Lurker. For what it's worth - Reader on the tablet for it's simplicity, RSS on the browser because that's the way I set it up ages ago... No farcebook or twunter.

I'll miss Reader, but will adapt and move on. Appreciate your efforts on the site JB.

Cheers,

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MJW mumbles...

Posted March 15, 2013
I've been using Google Reader for over five years and it's my main method of monitoring about 100 news sites, general web pages and blogs like Cheeseburger Gothic. As others have suggested, you can open it up at work with no questions and keep an eye on things throughout the day. With it disappearing the idea of visiting each and every web page individually will be impossible. Then again, it was free so one can't complain too much when it disappears. I'm figuring out a new way of efficiently monitoring and reading all these resources which will probably be a diversified mix of MS Outlook RSS, Facebook, email alerting (very old school) and Twitter which up to this stage I've not joined. Oh well, things change and if this is the worse thing to happen to me between now and July I will count myself lucky.

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AF mumbles...

Posted March 15, 2013
I got the details from the 'about the author' information on Weapons of Choice. I don't use Reader.

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Paul_Nicholas_Boylan mumbles...

Posted March 15, 2013
I found found this place by accident while looking for a fast food themed fetish porn site. I stayed for the ladies.

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Tom A swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 15, 2013
I just use it as a syncing service for a bunch of different RSS clients, mainly Reeder on iOS (no relation to Google Reader beyond relying on it to sync feeds). Utterly awesome app, with some of the best touchscreen UI design I've seen anywhere. Here's hoping that this won't be the end of it.

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DM has opinions thus...

Posted March 15, 2013
Another lurker - I got here some time back as 'AF' did, via one of your books. I also do not use Reader, never have.

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BobGrrl has opinions thus...

Posted March 15, 2013
Apart from RSS feeds being a great way of keeping up with a lot of different sources of information, the biggest advantage for me was not having to keep track of things in real time. Twitter and FB posts are all well and good, but the firewall my organisation runs means I generally don't have access to them and I can't spend all my time on my phone checking them. Additionally, their web interfaces aren't designed to push alerts to you and I don't have an option of installing a desktop app to push relevant alerts either. Bastards.

Reader on the other hand, isn't blocked and meant I could see /relevant/ things as they came in, catch up on less relevant things later and know exactly how much there was to catch up on, at least in a gross number of articles kind of way.

In short, much more powerful tool for slicing and dicing information streams in a way that's meaningful to you.

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Daniel swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 15, 2013
I'm with you Stuart, I don't skim this one. I do skim some of my higher volume feeds (like TechCrunch and Slashdot). But blogs like this I put in a different folder and tend to read every post fully.

I also wouldn't read most sites at all if I didn't have RSS. Bookmarks and manual checking? Stuff that.

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BobGrrl swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 15, 2013
@Daniel: 'ken aye. Manual checking is for chumps.

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zeniph is gonna tell you...

Posted March 15, 2013
signed up when it was first released, entered a heap of sites, never used it.

Occasionaly I'd end there by accident and I think wow if only I used this more often my life would be so much more efficient.

"your inbox for the web" as they said at launch - sounds like many of you wouldnt argue

CGB is on my daily round of sites to check when its slack off time. I do enjoy the show you all put on - entertaining and insightful.

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HAVOCK21 has opinions thus...

Posted March 15, 2013
right!

Um

Ended up here after reading AoT and link in the book to CBG, lurked for a bit, then, being rather shy put me toe in the water.

like lobes..what a cluster fk it was post JS going tits up and all that!, talk about a billion piece Mrs potatoe head type toy / group blowing up then all the bits trying to get back together again!


As for RSS..well I'd first goe looking for manufacturer, model and number of Cylinders when I first head of it, and to be truthful..I had NO fkn iea how it worked, didnt know it kept track of multi fkn ORGASIM!!!!! BLOGS AND SHIT!

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HAVOCK21 puts forth...

Posted March 15, 2013
And I tend to have it open all day, its a bit like a BAR, but..no fkn beer really, just ander passed, stick ya head in the door, yell some fkn abuse or have a proper convo, depends whats tickling ya fancy at the time.

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HAVOCK21 mutters...

Posted March 15, 2013
And whilst i think of it JB, if the new set up is condycted in the manner with which one of your part time employers conducts their web based interaction, then might I suggest you find a BOLT hole somewhere at the outter reaches of either this or the next fkn GALAXY co's ya ain't gunna be able to hide if they fk it up!

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Stuart asserts...

Posted March 15, 2013
JB, while I can't speaker for the other RSS users I read every post, I don't skim.

For me the choice isn't between reading it on the site vs. reading in Reader, it's between Reader or not at all. I don't have the time to individually visit each site.

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Therbs mumbles...

Posted March 15, 2013
This is starting to look like the transcript of an AA meeting.
Hi, I'm Therbs and I have a glass of wine sitting on my desk.

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NBlob swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 15, 2013
@H I was thinking of you when I was reading earlier about PRC drone swarms VS USN aircraft carriers. I'll see if I can hunt up the link.

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Mark Heydon asserts...

Posted March 15, 2013
I'm one of the 10,000. I read your posts when I see you tweet a link.

Respond to this comment

Dick mutters...

Posted March 15, 2013
From The Geek at BT, originally via The Age

Had a couple of old feeders but they stopped for some reason, probably death by Google.

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HAVOCK21 ducks in to say...

Posted March 15, 2013
NBLOB! when ya talk PRC Drone swarms I guess you are talking about a saturation attack of paper boxes with Candles suspended underneath them! all red painted.

A POX on the PRC RETARDS!

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coriolisdave ducks in to say...

Posted March 15, 2013
+1 on being a Reader. Used it for years, for me it's the way I experience the web. New stuff I get through twitter, but the stuff I return to every day?

That's in Reader.

*sigh*

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Barnesm would have you know...

Posted March 15, 2013
Yeah I use reader constantly to see what's popping up, desperately hoping equally usefull and able to get through workplace censors is available to replace. In the case of cheeseburger I see in reader their is a new update and the go to page to read and comment.
Sucks to loose it would be willing to pay a couple of bucks for something that did the same thing.

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Brian puts forth...

Posted March 15, 2013
Well said Brigadier. :)

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Sparty has opinions thus...

Posted March 15, 2013
Followed the link from back of AoT. Don't use google reader. More likely now to check On new articles when referenced on your twitter feed

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tqft swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 15, 2013
I set google reader to track a few things that I didn't want to clutter other stuff for or couldn't access directly at work.

Sort of kind of useful. I can see the use case for news junkies.

I do have a fair bit of other stuff as RSS feeds but they live at home in Thunderbird and can wait until I am ready for them.

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Perennially late to the party is gonna tell you...

Posted March 15, 2013
You've all convinced me. Google Reader!!! Sounds so good. I'm going to start using it.

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Barks mumbles...

Posted March 15, 2013
I use Reader, wouldn't get to read everything otherwise.

Re-lurking.

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Claustral is gonna tell you...

Posted March 15, 2013
I used Reader until yesterday. Moved to Feedly instead and it seems to work well on the desktop, though its Android app is all bling and no content, like Flipdeck.

I often click through though to read the comments.

Mark in Sweden

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Verimaz puts forth...

Posted March 15, 2013
Long time lurker via reader. I only click thru for comments which I will admit that I have done more since becoming one of the 10,000 out of some strange sense loyalty.

I've got over 180 feeds in my reader and thought it was a poor call when they killed the sharing function but this decision takes the cake.
I've got all sorts of plugins for chrome on the mac that I use with reader that have tuned the experience just the way I need it to be to get through them.
I use Feedler on the iPhone but don't know if that will survive with the death of Reader.
I'm sampling Feedly at the moment, not so sure on the phone but the desktop experience seems tolerable so far.
I suppose it figures that there isn't much of a revenue stream for google with Reader so they're killing it but I'd like to think they keep some things on to balance things out.

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Caroline mutters...

Posted March 15, 2013
Daniel... Wordpress Reader is pretty easy to use, I like the filters and topic searches. Thanks for the article about Google vs. Wordpress - I'm also backing the Wordpress horse!

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parlance mutters...

Posted March 15, 2013
I'm a lurker. I organise 100% of my blog reading through Reader. I have no idea how to do it any other way. Noticed someone mentioned Feedly. I guess I'll have to cope. I'm not up-to-date with technology, so it will be a cursedly long process for me. No idea how I first found your blog (lost in the mists of time).

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MarkWAau asserts...

Posted March 15, 2013
I'm an avid Reader user and use the Reeder application on my smart phone. I'm pretty busy with work, family and life in general so this tool helps to distil my preferred interwebz material. In the case of cheeseburger gothic, I'm a fan, a reader of words, a lurker if you will. I'm one of the sent majority who appreciate a good read and take advantage of gen x tools to do so. As peeved as I am, I'm sure there is another app that will fill the hole left by google. Cheers and all...

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damian ducks in to say...

Posted March 15, 2013
Did use RSS a fair bit a while back, but never used Google Reader - beyond a few minutes of playing with it at some stage years ago anyway. I suppose my thought would be that there are dozens, possible thousands of other tools out there that do something similar.

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Miche has opinions thus...

Posted March 15, 2013
Lurker, occasional contributor - I found my way to Cheeseburger Gothic through BT when it started. I enjoy the different voices from your readers, some I relate to, others teach me a different point of view. Mostly I get to see the world through your readers eyes for a brief time. I miss "Sweet Jane Says (SJS)". She was always interesting. Your blog and readers have introduced me to new books that I would otherwise have missed and as a former librarian that is an added bonus.

I use Reader to keep up with a variety of different blogs. I will miss it, but I will try whatever else is on offer.

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sapphyre mutters...

Posted March 15, 2013
Most often I get here via a link on Blunty or because I get your blog feeds via Goodreads.

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KT reckons...

Posted March 15, 2013
I do all blog reading via Google Reader. Some blogs force me to click through (i.e. only supplying the first few lines of each post in a feed), while others, like your site JB, allow me to read each post without clicking through. (And I do read each post.) I click through if I want to post a comment or read the comments.

I'm giving some alternative feed readers a try. The first one is Feedly - it's pretty but I'm not sure it's the one for me.

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JB in the library on the iPad. has opinions thus...

Posted March 15, 2013
This has been fascinating. Especially the lurker contributions, for which I am very grateful.

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tqft mumbles...

Posted March 15, 2013
I had some thoughts on google reader and am trying to get some feedback here
https://plus.google.com/u/0/101784830280357004005/posts/jH3aprZ32mV

tl;dr: Essentially google is not going to give up all the data and clicky goodness. Not having a replacement up seems a bit dumb though.

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Michael has opinions thus...

Posted March 15, 2013
I've been an RSS user for about eight years. And I would have considered it a certainty that JB was an RSS user too, and I'm not at all surprised that many of your readers are keen users. If you haven't already realised, JB, your suspicion that Reader would be responsible for random drop-ins is way off the mark - in fact it's likely to be more utilised by your most regular readers. So take a look around; once you've used RSS you never go back, so it amazes me that it isn't something that has taken off with a wider audience.

Netvibes has been my home page for the past seven years, because it offers more functionality- such as password protected feeds - than the Google service (iGoogle?) I used originally.

Being a graphic designer I still like to see my favourite sites natively, so I've never embraced Reader or the other alternates. But I can't possibly imagine not using RSS to keep on top of all the blogs I find interesting.

(For completeness I'm only a relatively recent visitor to CG, and I don't read everything. So whilst I do subscribe to the feed I tend to read JB's stuff here and at Blightly when something arouses my interest on Twitter, rather than from the feed. But that's in stark contrast to most sites whose feed I subscribe to.)

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sibeen reckons...

Posted March 15, 2013
Never used google reader in my life. I always knew that it was going to go tits up, and didn't want to become attached.









Well, that and the fact that I've never heard of it. In a way, thank dog. I can do enough fluffing on the net as it is. A bloke has to earn a quid somehow, and reading shite, this blog excluded, doesn't pay for the kids gruel.

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Dirk mumbles...

Posted March 16, 2013
As one of the merry 10.000 i just dropped in via Twitter (and came there by means of reading your books and looking you up).

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Blarkon mutters...

Posted March 16, 2013
Plonked down for a Netvibes premium account myself. Will see how it goes

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smr has opinions thus...

Posted March 16, 2013
This particular blog, I tend to follow from JB's Twitter feed. He posts a link, I punt it to Pocket and read it later on. But I'm a huge Google Reader guy, too. I keep it open in a pinned tab all day, and scan my feeds regularly. Feeds that tend to longer articles, they get interesting posts sent to Pocket. Shorter stuff I just read in-line.

I nearly panicked when I heard the news about it closing down; morning coffee and reader has been an ingrained habit for me for years now. I'm hoping a robust alternative reveals itself by July. Feedly is alright, if over-stylized to hell and gone, but they're still on GR's backend, not their own, will have to see how the latter works in practice. Kinda hopeful for whatever the Digg crew pulls together as well.

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Blarkon ducks in to say...

Posted March 16, 2013
Sorry - not netvibes, newsblur. Seems to do what Google Reader does, just costs 24 bucks a year.

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Paul_Nicholas_Boylan has opinions thus...

Posted March 16, 2013
I am so tech-ignorant I don't know what Google Reader is. Seriously. Although I'm not sure if I've ever used it, I am nevertheless fairly confident that I will miss it now that it is gone.

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Bettydee reckons...

Posted March 16, 2013
I'm a regular reader of your blogs and a Reader user. Like some other posters, I can't use twitter etc during my working day. I'm also time poor when it comes to playing around the interwebz; usually only have early mornings to stuff around without interruptions or other demands on my time. Reader suited me because it would save stuff from my fav blogs for when I'm able to squeeze in a quick read, like at lunch or on public transport. Sorry to see it go but will adapt.

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MickH reckons...

Posted March 16, 2013
Nah!
I just have the web page permanently open in a tab on Firefox

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MickH has opinions thus...

Posted March 16, 2013
"Fuck Google Glasses and the Nerd they rode in on!"

ROFL Classic quote!

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yankeedog swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 16, 2013
What's Google Reader?

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Jacques Stahl mutters...

Posted March 16, 2013
Just back from the scrub, but if it still counts, I don't use Google Reader - or their bloody browser bar thingy.

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JB in the library on the iPad. mutters...

Posted March 16, 2013
You're my favourite, flipsockgrrl.

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damian would have you know...

Posted March 16, 2013
Oh yeah, I found this place via blunty. I know Birmo as the author of Felafel and Tassie Babes, a sometime newpaper (or newspaper website) columnist and general lad-about-town from the 80s becomes middle aged bloke about town (and part-time restaurant reviewer) in the 10s.

You people who know him for his alt-history stuff are weird.

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Timmo asserts...

Posted March 16, 2013
Yep, big Google Reader user here too.
Once upon a time I started with Bloglines but never really picked it up and ran with it. Google Reader was something I started using once I started following a few more blogs about 4 or 5 years ago and I use it multiple times daily, mostly to follow blog posts (such as CBG and friends, plus a few forums and other random sites.

I'll be moving to feedly or similar ASAP.

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Paul_Nicholas_Boylan would have you know...

Posted March 17, 2013
"You people who know him for his alt-history stuff are weird."

Weird?? I have communicated with you telepathically, Damian, and - by virtue of that extrasensory contact - you know I am not "weird." Okay, okay, it is possible you weren't aware of the telepathic contact of which I speak, but you should have used your empathic powers (used often by Vegans to determine protein content in tofu) to intuitively know that of which I speak (or, as the case may be, telepathically transmit).

AoT rocks!

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damian is gonna tell you...

Posted March 17, 2013
Paul - well I see, that's alright then.

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damian puts forth...

Posted March 17, 2013

Yes, and I knew you knew.

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TW reckons...

Posted March 17, 2013

I've been lurking since the mid-2000s. I originally started reading while looking for Weapons of Choice info, and have stayed ever since. Never commented because I'm intimidated by the Burgers. Too much smarts for the likes of me. I use Google Reader, too. When that dies I'll probably retire from the internet. I don't see this internet thing going anywhere anyway. It's a fad. It'll go the way of the tamagotchi.Hitler and I don't hang out much.Currently re-reading the AoT series. Lovin' it again.

John Birmingham would have you know...

Posted March 18, 2013

Don't be intimidated by the Burgers. Most of them don't have enough to sense to wear pants.

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daleaus is gonna tell you...

Posted March 18, 2013

I started coming here through Goodreads and then lionked in through Google Reader which I use for everything media having stepped away from papers.

I will find another way in when Reader disappears. Goodreads helps with that but Google reader is more immediate for me.

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LRob35 mumbles...

Posted March 18, 2013

I've used GR for the last 3 years with CB being one of the first things I added to my feed. I've been a 'lurker' ( I prefer deeply appreciative but innately lazy fan- just saying) here since I read the AoT series and before I discovered RSS I had this page bookmarked. Have just switched to Feedly which is quite good so far. I've taken note of some of the alternatives just in case.

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Steve asserts...

Posted March 18, 2013

"once you've used RSS you never go back"

I've been a frequent blog reader for a decade, though I read less than ten feeds regularly. I've tried to use readers, but they just annoy me, turning everything into vanilla format, and giving me another layer of organisation I don't need. I find that google chrome with a history means i can type the first few letters of a blog I want to get to and then hit enter, and I'm there, and can quickly work whether to linger and read or move on. I don't need a reader to keep track of everything for me. I find that with twitter and my own browsing I can obtain and cycle through content quickly enough without wanting it to be even more quicker/disposable/uniform.

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sekret sekret ducks in to say...

Posted March 18, 2013

I kind of don't know how I got here , What's Google Reader? RSSS? No, I couldn't be bothered reading about what it is as it all sounds redundant now anyway.I started reading Blunty because I have JB on my facebook and that lead me to realise there was this school of regulars so , out of curiosity, I typed in Cheeseburger Gothic. Ever since then I just type it in. Lazy as sin.

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kroweta swirls their brandy and claims...

Posted March 22, 2013

Migrating from Google Reader to Feedly; me and 100's of 1000's apparently.

I found CB via AoT, mainly read, rarely commented but like the view.

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